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From: Theo Markettos on 21 Apr 2010 13:46

I'm wondering about buying a mobile principally for use as a VOIP client
over wifi. It's to be bought and used in Sudan, where there's not much
selection of non-mobile VOIP phones (and offers like Three Skype don't
exist).

Due to various double NAT headaches (see my thread on uk.telecom.voip) it
looks like Skype or IAX are the most robust protocols, but I'd like to keep
my options open to use SIP too.

Skype only works on Nokias, with the Windows Mobile client being deprecated.
I need this to run with no maintenance once I've set it up, so I'm wary
about deprecated software.

IAX is only supported by Zoiper Mobile Beta on Windows Mobile. However I
prefer Skype as I don't need to run my own IAX server (but I can run a
Skype-to-SIP gateway later if I want).

Nokia have a SIP client on various of their S40/S60 phones, and third-party
clients can be loaded on other of their phones.


I need this to run with no maintenance once I've set it up, so I need this
as bomb-proof as possible. For this reason I'm wary about deprecated or
beta software. I'd also like as many SIP options I can tweak as possible
(for example, to try to work around my NAT trouble), because I can't take it
back once I've bought it.

I suppose I'm limited to the Nokia phones that have wifi and can do both
Skype and SIP.

So any comments on this strategy? In particular how reliable are these
mobile apps compared with a hardware VOIP phone? It seems that different
Nokias have different versions of their SIP client (2.1, 2.2, 2.3, 3.0,
3.1)? Is there much to be gained by going for a phone with a later version?
Does VOIP still cause significant battery drain? Any other things I should
watch for?

Thanks
Theo
From: Gordon Henderson on 21 Apr 2010 15:18
In article <uVb*+588s(a)news.chiark.greenend.org.uk>,
Theo Markettos <theom+news(a)chiark.greenend.org.uk> wrote:

>I suppose I'm limited to the Nokia phones that have wifi and can do both
>Skype and SIP.
>
>So any comments on this strategy? In particular how reliable are these
>mobile apps compared with a hardware VOIP phone? It seems that different
>Nokias have different versions of their SIP client (2.1, 2.2, 2.3, 3.0,
>3.1)? Is there much to be gained by going for a phone with a later version?
>Does VOIP still cause significant battery drain? Any other things I should
>watch for?

The SIP client on my Nokia E90 was usable, but fiddly to setup. The one
on my N900 is good - easy to setup with multiple accounts. Seems to work
over Wi-Fi and 3G too - although I've yet to make a proper call over 3G
as I live in a 2G only area (O2)

OK - So i've not tried this, but will soon ... Nokia N900 which can run
Asterisk natively and has a built-in SIP client....

So load up Asterisk, get it to peer with someone using IAX and have the
SIP phone register to itself and off you go...

As for battery life - when using Wi-Fi or 3G it's short - but I'm getting
over 2 days on my N900 using it as a phone with Wi-Fi and data turned off
(actually hard to keep it off!), but seems to give me all days use with
Wi-Fi on, but I'm not doing too much on it other than checking twitter,
making a few calls and playing music...

No worse than an iPhone, I reckon.

Gordon
From: alexd on 21 Apr 2010 16:22
On 21/04/10 20:18, Gordon Henderson wrote:

> So load up Asterisk, get it to peer with someone using IAX and have the
> SIP phone register to itself and off you go...

The advantage to this is that if you found IAX is blocked in Sudan, you
could tunnel it in OpenVPN from an N900.

--
<http://ale.cx/> (AIM:troffasky) (UnSoEsNpEaTm(a)ale.cx)
21:19:22 up 12 days, 10:36, 2 users, load average: 0.18, 0.77, 0.47
It is better to have been wasted and then sober
than to never have been wasted at all
From: Theo Markettos on 21 Apr 2010 17:31
In uk.telecom.voip Gordon Henderson <gordon+usenet(a)drogon.net> wrote:
> The SIP client on my Nokia E90 was usable, but fiddly to setup. The one
> on my N900 is good - easy to setup with multiple accounts. Seems to work
> over Wi-Fi and 3G too - although I've yet to make a proper call over 3G
> as I live in a 2G only area (O2)
>
> OK - So i've not tried this, but will soon ... Nokia N900 which can run
> Asterisk natively and has a built-in SIP client....
>
> So load up Asterisk, get it to peer with someone using IAX and have the
> SIP phone register to itself and off you go...

I've come up with another idea... Fring. It even works on my geriatric N70
(client dated 2007). I put in the Mobile Broadband SIM and Skype and SIP
work acceptably (a little voice breakup, but OK).

Integration with the phone is good. This approach also allows use away from
the wifi (by buying a daily Zain internet pass for 1 SDG - about 30p).

Of course this is only on single NAT. So the question is does Fring work on
double NAT? It appears to use its own protocol to the Fring servers which
then turn it into Skype/SIP/etc (a bit like Opera Mini). But I can't work
out how it behaves when behind double NAT (there's no PC client). Or indeed
their business model (how they'll break things in future). And they have
woeful security (you can't change your password. Ever).

Theo
From: R. Mark Clayton on 23 Apr 2010 22:03

"Theo Markettos" <theom+news(a)chiark.greenend.org.uk> wrote in message
news:xVb*sQh9s(a)news.chiark.greenend.org.uk...
> In uk.telecom.voip R. Mark Clayton <nospamclayton(a)btinternet.com> wrote:
>> This does work, but is fiddly to set up, but once done it works very well
>> and reliably.
>>
>> The SIP works fine over wi-fi, with good call quality, quick set up etc.
>
> Well, that rather depends on what's at the other end of the wifi. I
> assume
> you mean ADSL or cable? Here it's a router with a builtin 3G dongle, so
> it's pretty much the same whether it's over wifi or the phone does the 3G.
>
>> There is a slight increase in battery drain.
>
> That's useful to know... I did wonder if such apps ate batteries for
> breakfast. If you leave such an app on all the time, how much battery
> life
> do you get?

Days, but I am 200m from a macro cell. When I go to my sister's in the
sticks battery life is MUCH lower even with the w-fi off.

GPS slugs it too, although obviously you have the display illuminated a lot
too.

>
>> Unexpectedly once set up over wi-fi it also works over 3G outbound and
>> less
>> reliably inbound (if you are mobile), however the call quality is poor
>> and
>> most service providers will cut you off if they notice.
>
> What do you mean that it's less reliable inbound? That registration fails
> because it doesn't send keepalive packets?

One way of improving battery life is to limit the registration check to
every several minutes.

On GSM the base stations constantly monitor the phone and tell it when to
switch (hand off) a connection. Not so the Voip connection, so although an
outgoing call will usually succeed because the phone will re-initialise the
voip connection if necessary, there is no way to make this happen in the
reverse direction until the phone tries again.

>
> Theo


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