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From: Ray K on 28 Nov 2009 13:49
John Doe wrote:
> Ray K <raykosXXX(a)optonline.net> wrote:
>
> ...
>
>> FWIW, I recovered from the MaCatte virus without having to
>> format c: or even do a reinstall or repair of XP.
>
> For what it's worth... I can recover from any virus without having to
> format or repair, by keeping a hidden copy of the Windows partition on
> the hard drive (some keep it on another hard drive). Once you learn
> that trick, personal computing is a whole new world. Knowing where
> personal/important files are and keeping a backup copy of those files
> to removable media is part of that process. ALWAYS KEEP A COPY OF ANY
> IMPORTANT FILES TO REMOVABLE MEDIA.

Sounds like a terrific idea. Some questions:

1. For XP, is the Windows partition simply c:\windows and all the
folders below it?

2. I have two physical drives. The Primary/Master is partitioned as c,
e, f, h, and i. The Primary/Slave is partitioned as d and g. Any
suggestions for where to put the hidden copy of the Windows partition?

I have my application programs in c:\Program Files, the usual default
installation location, but the data I create from Microsoft Office is in
f, and my extensive collection of music, photos, and videos is in g.

3. Do you put your application programs in c? If you don't, how do you
deal with the various Document and Settings values, especially for the
various users?

4. How do you go about using the hidden copy of Windows to recover from
a virus?

Thanks,

Ray
From: John Doe on 28 Nov 2009 14:29
Ray K <raykosXXX(a)optonline.net> wrote:

> John Doe wrote:
>> Ray K <raykosXXX(a)optonline.net> wrote:
>>
>> ...
>>
>>> FWIW, I recovered from the MaCatte virus without having to
>>> format c: or even do a reinstall or repair of XP.
>>
>> For what it's worth... I can recover from any virus without
>> having to format or repair, by keeping a hidden copy of the
>> Windows partition on the hard drive (some keep it on another
>> hard drive). Once you learn that trick, personal computing is a
>> whole new world. Knowing where personal/important files are and
>> keeping a backup copy of those files to removable media is part
>> of that process. ALWAYS KEEP A COPY OF ANY IMPORTANT FILES TO
>> REMOVABLE MEDIA.
>
> Sounds like a terrific idea. Some questions:
>
> 1. For XP, is the Windows partition simply c:\windows and all
> the folders below it?

No, the "Windows partition" is drive C. It does not have to be the
only partition on the physical hard drive.

> 2. I have two physical drives. The Primary/Master is partitioned
> as c, e, f, h, and i. The Primary/Slave is partitioned as d and
> g. Any suggestions for where to put the hidden copy of the
> Windows partition?

First, you have to decide on a disk manager. Acronis Disk Director
will probably work well for Windows XP unless you use a Solid
State Disk SDD drive. Seems to me that disk management utilities
have not quite figured out how to work well with SSD drives.

The hidden copy of Windows will be put on hard drive free space.
It will not show up as a drive letter after you copy and then hide
it. You will need to use your disk manager to first
delete/move/resize partitions in order to free up space on the
hard drive.

> I have my application programs in c:\Program Files, the usual
> default installation location, but the data I create from
> Microsoft Office is in f, and my extensive collection of music,
> photos, and videos is in g.

And of course you have a copy of any important files from your
hard drive to removable media. Being able to keep track of and
backup personal data is fundamental to making incremental copies
of Windows.

I do not bother keeping data separate from the Windows partition,
because I know where that data is and regularly copy that to my
secondary hard drive. An extensive collection of multimedia might
be an exception (even though you must still keep a backup copy to
removable media if it is important to you). For that, you would
just adjust the pointer(s) if/when necessary, and see how it goes.
Since multimedia is simply a file type, shortcuts are the only
link between it and your concerned program(s). If you keep a huge
collection of data like multimedia separate from the Windows
partition/drive, you will want to put much thought into the folder
structure where it goes on your secondary drive, because you want
to avoid having to adjust pointers to that location.

> 3. Do you put your application programs in c?

I have tried that, it just got in the way. Nowadays, hard drive
space is more than abundant (with obvious exceptions). I have a
fast 32 GB main drive and a reasonably fast 150 GB secondary
drive. Three copies of the main drive are kept on the secondary
drive and there is still room for personal data apart from that.

I would not try to separate programs from the Windows partition. A
large database might be an exception.

> If you don't, how do you deal with the various Document and
> Settings values, especially for the various users?

You can learn by experience. You learn where important data is
kept, and regularly copy that to your secondary hard drive.
Windows is hardly modular, but you can figure out where personal
data is kept.

Settings is a very good reason for keeping a backup copy of
Windows. After you make a bunch of settings adjustments is the
time to make a fresh copy. And the best time to make settings
adjustments is immediately after restoring a copy of Windows. So
you restore the copy of Windows, take the opportunity to very
carefully improve the installation, and then you make a backup
copy to preserve those improvements. Your experience from that
point onwards tells you what sort of shape your most recent backup
copy is in.

> 4. How do you go about using the hidden copy of Windows to
> recover from a virus?

When a virus strikes, (after removing Internet connectivity) the
first thing you do is think "backup". Any time the thought of
restoring Windows crosses your mind, you immediately make fresh
copies of personal data from your Windows partition/drive.

To restore Windows, you delete the current Windows partition and
restore a backup copy into its place. Using Disk Director, after
the deletion and copy, you have to unhide and make active the
primary partition.

After the copy back to its place, make sure that primary partition
is visible and active. When doing a backup copy, you need to hide
the backup copy.

My peers may feel free to correct me if I am wrong here, but the
process I am talking about is for advanced users. The first thing
you must be familiar with is always keeping a backup copy of
important data from your hard drive to removable media. And you
need to be able to recover from a boot CD, or (if you cannot do
that) settle for reinstalling Windows from scratch.

I will try to answer more detailed questions (at least about my
current disk manager) if they ever come up.
From: Fishface on 28 Nov 2009 16:32
Ray K wrote:
> However, while it was scanning, AVG interrupted the scan three times.
> The first time the message said WIN32: Patched LF [Trj]. Once I deleted
> it, the malwarebytes scan resumed by itself until it next halted at
> WIN32: Malware-gen. I deleted it and the scan resumed, halting a final
> time at WIN32: Patched LF [Trj](yes, same message as the first time).
>
> It's almost like AVG was detecting problems in malwarebytes program.

No, I don't think so.

By default, AVG checks files when they are opened. They were likely files
of which type AVG doesn't scan by default, and you likely chose the Full-
Scan option of the anti-malware program. When the Malwarebytes
program opened the files to read, AVG detected the problem first. That's
my theory, anyway...
From: Fishface on 28 Nov 2009 16:39
Here's another option:
http://www.macrium.com/reflectfree.asp

You just keep a backup copy of your system drive
on another drive. It will even write it out to DVDs.
From: John Doe on 28 Nov 2009 17:10
"Fishface" <fishface(a)invalid.invalid> wrote:

> Here's another option:
> http://www.macrium.com/reflectfree.asp
>
> You just keep a backup copy of your system drive on another
> drive. It will even write it out to DVDs.

Have you used it? Does it automatically hide the copy so that any
operational partitions on the target drive remain the same letter?
Does it make a recovery boot CD? Does it work with SSD drives?

I will try it and post the answers to those questions and more...
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