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From: friesian on 19 May 2010 03:26
My parent's computer has stopped working. It is on, but is not doing
anything (the monitor is not receiving a signal). It will not reboot
or even shut down via the buttons on the front.

I need to figure out what the problem is and whether it is fixable.

I was planning to redo their hard drive soon as it was orginally
partitioned into 4 sections of 10GB each and the C drive is basically
full while the other drives are not. I have already transferred as
much as possible to the other drives, but it is now full, mostly with
windows files and things i am not sure I can move. My plan was to copy
all their files to my external drive (plenty of room), and totally
redo their hard drive. Their computer is older with only usb1.0, so I
have not finished copying all of their hard drive. I've been doing a
section per night and letting it go for hours while it transfers the
files. It was NOT doing this when it died.

Any suggestions that might fix it? I know it is older, but it has done
everything okay for them. They don't need anything fancy. Could they
just need a new hard drive or power supply?

From: Paul on 19 May 2010 04:04
friesian(a)zoocrewphoto.com wrote:
> My parent's computer has stopped working. It is on, but is not doing
> anything (the monitor is not receiving a signal). It will not reboot
> or even shut down via the buttons on the front.
>
> I need to figure out what the problem is and whether it is fixable.
>
> I was planning to redo their hard drive soon as it was orginally
> partitioned into 4 sections of 10GB each and the C drive is basically
> full while the other drives are not. I have already transferred as
> much as possible to the other drives, but it is now full, mostly with
> windows files and things i am not sure I can move. My plan was to copy
> all their files to my external drive (plenty of room), and totally
> redo their hard drive. Their computer is older with only usb1.0, so I
> have not finished copying all of their hard drive. I've been doing a
> section per night and letting it go for hours while it transfers the
> files. It was NOT doing this when it died.
>
> Any suggestions that might fix it? I know it is older, but it has done
> everything okay for them. They don't need anything fancy. Could they
> just need a new hard drive or power supply?
>

"It will not reboot or even shut down via the buttons on the front."

Are the buttons still connected to the motherboard ? Is the wiring
in place ? If the PANEL wiring became disconnected, that would be
a reason for the power button not to work. But it would require a
second fault, something to stress the Southbridge, to make it
come on all by itself in the first place.

You can try some basic tests.

1) Turn off the computer at the back. Wait 30 seconds (to give the
inrush limiter time to cool off), then switch on at the back.
Does the computer start to run immediately ? Or does it wait
until you press the front power button ? (The front power button
has two time constants. In some circumstances, it must be held
in for at least four seconds, to work. That is to avoid accidental
attempts to shut it off, such as brushing against the switch.)

2) If the computer behaves itself, and waits for the front power to be
pushed, what is the immediate response of the computer ? Does it
beep an error code, via the computer case speaker or motherboard
piezoelectric speaker ? Do the fans spin ? Does the monitor light up ?
Does the hard drive light flash ? Does the hard drive light flash
enough to indicate it is booting ? Try to add details about what
you're seeing and hearing.

3) To do a basic motherboard test, first, turn off all power and unplug
the computer. That is to ensure there is no power in the memory DIMM
slots. Using the lock latches, eject the memory and store the memory
in an antistatic bag. Now, turn on the computer, with no memory
present. If the computer is working, it'll beep a "missing RAM" code
error pattern. If it can beep, that tells you the processor is
working, the Northbridge and Southbridge are probably working, and
perhaps even the SuperIO. Hearing beeps tells you a good deal about
the computer.

Some pre-built computers have four diagnostic LEDs, and they can
show a code as well. In this case, they should show a code indicating
a problem with the RAM. That would also be a good indication,
because the processor has to write the register controlling the
LEDs, to make that code.

If you get no beeps, then the processor might not be running BIOS
code, or even coming out of reset. If the motherboard has an ATX12V
2x2 square power connector, is the power cable plugged into its
connector ? If the processor isn't getting power by that cable,
it can't beep or anything. On older computers, all the power
comes through the main power connector (20 pin). That would be
Pentium 2 or Pentium 3 era.

4) Now, compare the results of "RAM present" versus "RAM absent". With
RAM present, it is completely silent ? Sometimes, that can mean there
are RAM memory locations below 640K that are bad.

In addition to that basic test, you should also visually inspect the
inside of the computer. Look for bulging or leaking capacitors. Burned
components. Is there a burned smell present ? Has the computer had
recent issues with starting reliably ? Were there any "sizzling noises"
in past weeks ? Are all connectors secure ? If you press the latch
and release the main power connectors, are the pins bright and shiny ?
Any pins or contacts burned ?

If you state the computer make and model number, some machines have
extensive failure histories you can find in a search. Certain Dell
computers have "bad cap" problems on the motherboard, and you can't
even trust buying exact replacements on Ebay, without getting another
one with exactly the same problem. For computers with "epidemic"
problems, there may already be enough evidence about, to suggest
a failure mode.

Since you say the computer has USB 1.0, chances are good this is
not a capacitor problem (as the motherboard likely pre-dates when
bad capacitors were sold). So at least you have that going for
you. If the computer has a Bestec 250W power supply, the supply
may have failed and damaged a lot of stuff in the computer.
If you take off the side of the computer and look at the
label printed on the supply, you can get some idea who made
it, power rating and so on. That is the only power supply
I'd be fearful of, due to its history.

Paul
From: friesian on 19 May 2010 06:12
On May 19, 1:04 am, Paul <nos...(a)needed.com> wrote:

> You can try some basic tests.
>
> 1) Turn off the computer at the back. Wait 30 seconds (to give the
>     inrush limiter time to cool off), then switch on at the back.
>     Does the computer start to run immediately ? Or does it wait
>     until you press the front power button ? (The front power button
>     has two time constants. In some circumstances, it must be held
>     in for at least four seconds, to work. That is to avoid accidental
>     attempts to shut it off, such as brushing against the switch.)

I tried holding the button in for 20 seconds (long past the normal
time), and it would not shut off. After doing the back button off and
on, it does not automatically run.
>
> 2) If the computer behaves itself, and waits for the front power to be
>     pushed, what is the immediate response of the computer ? Does it
>     beep an error code, via the computer case speaker or motherboard
>     piezoelectric speaker ? Do the fans spin ? Does the monitor light up ?
>     Does the hard drive light flash ? Does the hard drive light flash
>     enough to indicate it is booting ? Try to add details about what
>     you're seeing and hearing.
>

When I push the front button, it lights up, and the computer hums. But
no beeps or hard drive sounds. The monitor lights up for a moment,
then shuts off, like there is no signal. The CD light goes on, but it
doesn't sound like it is running.



> 3) To do a basic motherboard test, first, turn off all power and unplug
>     the computer. That is to ensure there is no power in the memory DIMM
>     slots. Using the lock latches, eject the memory and store the memory
>     in an antistatic bag. Now, turn on the computer, with no memory
>     present. If the computer is working, it'll beep a "missing RAM" code
>     error pattern. If it can beep, that tells you the processor is
>     working, the Northbridge and Southbridge are probably working, and
>     perhaps even the SuperIO. Hearing beeps tells you a good deal about
>     the computer.
>

I haven't checked this yet. Should I do this with my situation, or was
that only if it beeped and made an effort?


>
> In addition to that basic test, you should also visually inspect the
> inside of the computer. Look for bulging or leaking capacitors. Burned
> components. Is there a burned smell present ? Has the computer had
> recent issues with starting reliably ? Were there any "sizzling noises"
> in past weeks ? Are all connectors secure ? If you press the latch
> and release the main power connectors, are the pins bright and shiny ?
> Any pins or contacts burned ?

I haven't checked the inside yet. I wanted to ask what to look for
first. I will check this tomorrow.


>
> If you state the computer make and model number, some machines have
> extensive failure histories you can find in a search.

It is a kit computer, put together by a family friend a few years ago.
I don't have any of the boxes or manuals for anything. My own computer
was bought used, also a kit computer, and the seller gave me the box
from the motherboard along with all the manuals, unused cables, etc
for everything. My parents have nothing.




>
> Since you say the computer has USB 1.0, chances are good this is
> not a capacitor problem (as the motherboard likely pre-dates when
> bad capacitors were sold). So at least you have that going for
> you. If the computer has a Bestec 250W power supply, the supply
> may have failed and damaged a lot of stuff in the computer.
> If you take off the side of the computer and look at the
> label printed on the supply, you can get some idea who made
> it, power rating and so on. That is the only power supply
> I'd be fearful of, due to its history.

If this is the case, is the hard drive likely to be good or dead? I
have already backed up 3 of the partitions, so most of what they had
was saved. But it would be great if I can still access that hard
drive. Also, how likely is the RAM to still be good. I just upgraded
it last year. If the computer is fried, I will buy another used
computer. Finances are tight, so I would use the RAM to upgrade the
replacement if needed. Actually, we have a computer left behind by a
renter that didn't pay several months and then ditched us. So, I am
about to check it and see if it runs at all.

From: Leythos on 19 May 2010 08:31
In article <0cf2ff74-40f2-4bad-aa2c-
2c9d8877a87a(a)y6g2000pra.googlegroups.com>, friesian(a)zoocrewphoto.com
says...
> When I push the front button, it lights up, and the computer hums. But
> no beeps or hard drive sounds. The monitor lights up for a moment,
> then shuts off, like there is no signal. The CD light goes on, but it
> doesn't sound like it is running.
>

If you have no control from the front power button, and you don't see a
POST message, you have one of two problem, 99% of the time:

1) Power supply
2) Mother-board



--
You can't trust your best friends, your five senses, only the little
voice inside you that most civilians don't even hear -- Listen to that.
Trust yourself.
spam999free(a)rrohio.com (remove 999 for proper email address)
From: Bruce Chambers on 19 May 2010 21:19
friesian(a)zoocrewphoto.com wrote:
> My parent's computer has stopped working. It is on, but is not doing
> anything (the monitor is not receiving a signal). It will not reboot
> or even shut down via the buttons on the front.
>


Is there any fan activity? Can you hear any hard drive activity? If
so, it may need a new video adapter. If not, from your limited
description, you'll need either a new power supply or a new motherboard.


> I need to figure out what the problem is and whether it is fixable.
>
> I was planning to redo their hard drive soon as it was orginally
> partitioned into 4 sections of 10GB each and the C drive is basically
> full while the other drives are not.


10GB is too small for the system partition, as you should be able to
see from it's being "basically full." Make this partition at least 20gb
in size.



--

Bruce Chambers

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