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From: Sjouke Burry on 2 Jul 2010 21:58 Paul Hovnanian P.E. wrote: cut > Answer this question: Why is it that whenever we (in the USA) have an > earthquake, the local news cuts to a room full of ancient pen recorders? Because those sensors are situated in a quiet spot, where heavy traffic will not upset the readings. When I was experimenting with some expensive sensor, I could read people walking 50 yards away. Sensors in every home is not a smart idea, you will be swamped with unwanted random signals.
From: Phil Hobbs on 2 Jul 2010 22:02 On 7/2/2010 9:42 PM, Paul Hovnanian P.E. wrote: > Rich Grise on Google groups wrote: >> >> I was reading today about the recent earthquakes in and near so. Cal, >> and they >> were talking about how difficult it is to analyze faults and stuff - >> they were wondering >> how the quakes had affected nearby faults. > > Is it really that difficult? Its not like the SETI problem, with a few > receivers looking for very weak signals in lots of noise. Its a question > of distributing a large set of useful sensors (hard drive shock > accelerometers are probably too insensitive to be of any use and we > don't know their XYZ orientation at any given time) and networking them. > Once they are in place, the analysis isn't that difficult. > > Answer this question: Why is it that whenever we (in the USA) have an > earthquake, the local news cuts to a room full of ancient pen recorders? > But when they had an earthquake (and tsunami) in Indonesia, the local > officials had state of the art plots of things like phase and energy vs > frequency and other stuff for the event on their PCs? > > I'll pull on my tin foil hat and suggest a reason: Large networks of > advanced sensors tied to state of the art data analysis systems are not > only useful for earthquake analysis. The same sorts of data (generated > by thousands of micro-quakes daily) can reveal quite a lot about > geological formations. Including the locations of oil, natural gas and > other resources. Making such data available to the public in this > country would upset the holders of mineral rights and mining and > drilling leases. So we'll be looking at ancient pen recorders for the > foreseeable future. > Nope. Pen recorders just make better TV--nobody uses them for anything else nowadays. Cheers Phil Hobbs -- Dr Philip C D Hobbs Principal ElectroOptical Innovations 55 Orchard Rd Briarcliff Manor NY 10510 845-480-2058 hobbs at electrooptical dot net http://electrooptical.net
From: AM on 2 Jul 2010 22:07 On Sat, 03 Jul 2010 03:58:53 +0200, Sjouke Burry <burrynulnulfour(a)ppllaanneett.nnll> wrote: >Paul Hovnanian P.E. wrote: >cut >> Answer this question: Why is it that whenever we (in the USA) have an >> earthquake, the local news cuts to a room full of ancient pen recorders? > >Because those sensors are situated in a quiet spot, where heavy >traffic will not upset the readings. >When I was experimenting with some expensive sensor, I could read people >walking 50 yards away. >Sensors in every home is not a smart idea, you will be swamped with >unwanted random signals. I already said that.
From: AM on 2 Jul 2010 22:13 On Fri, 02 Jul 2010 22:02:44 -0400, Phil Hobbs <pcdhSpamMeSenseless(a)electrooptical.net> wrote: >On 7/2/2010 9:42 PM, Paul Hovnanian P.E. wrote: >> Rich Grise on Google groups wrote: >>> >>> I was reading today about the recent earthquakes in and near so. Cal, >>> and they >>> were talking about how difficult it is to analyze faults and stuff - >>> they were wondering >>> how the quakes had affected nearby faults. >> >> Is it really that difficult? Its not like the SETI problem, with a few >> receivers looking for very weak signals in lots of noise. Its a question >> of distributing a large set of useful sensors (hard drive shock >> accelerometers are probably too insensitive to be of any use and we >> don't know their XYZ orientation at any given time) and networking them. >> Once they are in place, the analysis isn't that difficult. >> >> Answer this question: Why is it that whenever we (in the USA) have an >> earthquake, the local news cuts to a room full of ancient pen recorders? >> But when they had an earthquake (and tsunami) in Indonesia, the local >> officials had state of the art plots of things like phase and energy vs >> frequency and other stuff for the event on their PCs? >> >> I'll pull on my tin foil hat and suggest a reason: Large networks of >> advanced sensors tied to state of the art data analysis systems are not >> only useful for earthquake analysis. The same sorts of data (generated >> by thousands of micro-quakes daily) can reveal quite a lot about >> geological formations. Including the locations of oil, natural gas and >> other resources. Making such data available to the public in this >> country would upset the holders of mineral rights and mining and >> drilling leases. So we'll be looking at ancient pen recorders for the >> foreseeable future. >> > >Nope. Pen recorders just make better TV--nobody uses them for anything >else nowadays. > >Cheers > >Phil Hobbs Bull. They are still widely used as their accuracy is perfectly fine for the job. If it ain't broke, don't fix it. The mechanisms have been fitted with digitizing transducers though that allow the recorded data to also be electronically transmitted. The mechanisms, however, have not changed a lot. Even the most sensitive MEMS accelerometer cannot beat a counterbalanced mass and a pointer. It feels the Earth move under its feet. It feels the sky tumblin' down. I am sure that electronic means have taken over in all the prosperous nations, but I am also sure there are still old units out there,logging and reporting data as well.
From: Paul Hovnanian P.E. on 3 Jul 2010 00:39
AM wrote: > > On Fri, 02 Jul 2010 22:02:44 -0400, Phil Hobbs > <pcdhSpamMeSenseless(a)electrooptical.net> wrote: > > >On 7/2/2010 9:42 PM, Paul Hovnanian P.E. wrote: > >> Rich Grise on Google groups wrote: > >>> > >>> I was reading today about the recent earthquakes in and near so. Cal, > >>> and they > >>> were talking about how difficult it is to analyze faults and stuff - > >>> they were wondering > >>> how the quakes had affected nearby faults. > >> > >> Is it really that difficult? Its not like the SETI problem, with a few > >> receivers looking for very weak signals in lots of noise. Its a question > >> of distributing a large set of useful sensors (hard drive shock > >> accelerometers are probably too insensitive to be of any use and we > >> don't know their XYZ orientation at any given time) and networking them. > >> Once they are in place, the analysis isn't that difficult. > >> > >> Answer this question: Why is it that whenever we (in the USA) have an > >> earthquake, the local news cuts to a room full of ancient pen recorders? > >> But when they had an earthquake (and tsunami) in Indonesia, the local > >> officials had state of the art plots of things like phase and energy vs > >> frequency and other stuff for the event on their PCs? > >> > >> I'll pull on my tin foil hat and suggest a reason: Large networks of > >> advanced sensors tied to state of the art data analysis systems are not > >> only useful for earthquake analysis. The same sorts of data (generated > >> by thousands of micro-quakes daily) can reveal quite a lot about > >> geological formations. Including the locations of oil, natural gas and > >> other resources. Making such data available to the public in this > >> country would upset the holders of mineral rights and mining and > >> drilling leases. So we'll be looking at ancient pen recorders for the > >> foreseeable future. > >> > > > >Nope. Pen recorders just make better TV--nobody uses them for anything > >else nowadays. > > > >Cheers > > > >Phil Hobbs > > Bull. They are still widely used as their accuracy is perfectly fine > for the job. Try taking two pen recordings from different sites and measure the phase difference between the P-waves. On the other hand, if "the job" the pen recorders are intended for is a nice PR image for the news cameras, they sure look nice. > If it ain't broke, don't fix it. The mechanisms have been > fitted with digitizing transducers though that allow the recorded data to > also be electronically transmitted. Can we (the public) see the raw digitized data somewhere? -- Paul Hovnanian mailto:Paul(a)Hovnanian.com ------------------------------------------------------------------ Steinbach's Guideline for Systems Programming Never test for an error condition you don't know how to handle. |