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From: Adrian C on 13 Jun 2010 04:35
On 13/06/2010 04:57, Bob Pownall wrote:

> IIRC, when you install Java, one of the decision points will, by
> default, make Yahoo! your default search engine. If you uncheck the box
> on the page, nothing changes.

Correct.

> Pretty simple fix, but you have to be paying attention to the questions
> you're being asked and not just blindly click "Yes/Accept" to every prompt.

On a case by case basis, I've actually been removing Java from machines
for users that don't really need it. Stops the persistant update
notices, them installing the toolbars and other junk.

--
Adrian C
From: David Nebenzahl on 13 Jun 2010 14:51
On 6/13/2010 10:47 AM Adrian C spake thus:

> I posted this somewhere sometime ago.
>
> -------
>
> Got a few elderly pensioner folk (them) that get sent in my direction.
>
> Them: I hear you know something about that www internet thing?
>
> Me: Er, yeah ...
>
> Them: Can I buy a computer so I can look at the www internet thing?
>
> Me: Your local library has plenty of internet terminals, classes on
> using the internet, people you can talk to, books you can read about
> computers, magazines. They are spending money so you don't have to.
>
> Them: Don't want that. Can YOU buy ME a computer so I can look at the
> www internet thing? I'll give you the money.
>
> Me: No.

[snip]

You sound like exactly the kind of know-it-all elitist that these folks
*don't* need. If you have the skills to help them, why don't you?

Oh, I see, it's because they're not interested in the computer except
for [fill in single application--email, web, etc.--they ARE interested
in]. So that's a crime? They just want to use the goddamn thing for
something THEY consider a worthwhile usage, but that's not good enough
for you. You simply must criticize them for being uninterested in the
things that *you* consider essential for any computer user to know.

Sheesh.


--
The fashion in killing has an insouciant, flirty style this spring,
with the flaunting of well-defined muscle, wrapped in flags.

- Comment from an article on Antiwar.com (http://antiwar.com)
From: Jeff Liebermann on 13 Jun 2010 15:27
On Sun, 13 Jun 2010 18:47:32 +0100, Adrian C <email(a)here.invalid>
wrote:

>> No it's not really. Do you do IT work for an elderly-folks assisted
>> living home?

I do some. (Hint: I'm 62.5 years old). Few computers in assisted
living, but in the independent living section, my guess is about 30%
of the apartments have computers of some sorts.

>Virtually, yes.
>I posted this somewhere sometime ago.
>Got a few elderly pensioner folk (them) that get sent in my direction.
>Them: I hear you know something about that www internet thing?
(...)

I've experiences most of what you claim. The difference is that my
answer is usually yes. When you get old, the ability to learn is
still there. It just takes MUCH longer for things to sink in. My
method is to do my best with the initial setup, make an image backup
to cover my posterior, and wait for the inevitable trashout or virus
infection. I give some basic instruction. Nobody takes notes, so the
best I can expect is about 10% retention. It usually takes about a
month for the machine to grind to a halt.

I arrive and precede to lecture on the art of updates, virus scans,
evil web sites, exploits, and relatives bearing games and utilities
such as Bitorrent programs. I have a fairly standard song and dance,
which I have printed. I leave at leaset two copies which are usually
discarded or lost within about a month. When the machine grinds to a
halt, I arrive, repeat the lecture, leave additional copies, and
casually mention that it might be cheaper to follow the instructions
instead of paying me to constantly fix things. A call to some of the
other tenants confirm that the instructions work. End of problem.

There are some other subtleties, but basically, I can sell computers
and services to senior citizens. It just takes longer for the basics
to sink in.

I do agree with you on one point. I won't deal with inkjet printers.
When they die their inevitable early death or the customer discovers
the true cost of owning one, I usually sell them a small laser
printer.

The biggest headache I see are seniors that own multi-megapixel
cameras or digital camcorders, that create very large JPG's or movies.
They send these to friends and family. Most ISP's will choke on
gigantic attachments. Explaining how to use an online photo album
service has been a problem due to overly complexicated web interfaces.

Incidentally, one of my first senior citizen installs was rather
humorous. Their daughter bought the parents a PC. I was hired to set
it up and install it. I setup the machine, and gave an early version
of my lecture on how to use it. However, I noticed that they were
rather distracted and not really paying attention. I tried to go
through a variety of common features and functions, but nothing seemed
to get their attention. Eventually, they thanked me for the
instructions followed by "Where's the pornography". So, now I know
what seniors really do with computers.


--
Jeff Liebermann jeffl(a)cruzio.com
150 Felker St #D http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com
Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558
From: Adrian C on 13 Jun 2010 15:28
On 13/06/2010 19:51, David Nebenzahl wrote:
>>
>> Them: Don't want that. Can YOU buy ME a computer so I can look at the
>> www internet thing? I'll give you the money.
>>
>> Me: No.

> You sound like exactly the kind of know-it-all elitist that these folks
> *don't* need.

Correct. If I could be left alone ...

If you have the skills to help them, why don't you?

"Give a man a fish, and you'll feed him for a day. Teach a man to fish
and he'll sit in a boat and drink beer all day"

Didn't make it down to the bottom of my post, did you?

--
Adrian C
From: Adrian C on 13 Jun 2010 16:10
On 13/06/2010 20:36, David Nebenzahl wrote:

> Unless you see your mission as some kind of misplaced computer literacy
> campaign. Obviously, these folks don't care *how* their computer or this
> internet thingy works;

Agreed.

> they just want it to work.

Nope, they want me to do their work for them. Personal assistant like.

> Is that a crime?

It's a punishment on both sides.

Take ten years from now, a lot of people, young and old, will be lost
and confused as electronic communications become more fundamental to
"life, death and taxes". They will also be feeling rightly ripped off,
as everyone else has access to the cost benefits of shopping on line.

You call my worry about that a "misplaced computer literacy campaign"?

Perhaps in the future we will see folks employed as "technology personal
assistants" in the same vein that people employ personal accountants
today. I'm not talking about Best Buy 'Geek Squad' resolutions to
technical problems. Nope it will be someone skilled who can move a mouse
and fill in a web form, for those that won't :-(

I want another job, something more worthwhile than that...

--
Adrian C
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