Prev: How can I remove photoview
Next: CPU running continuously at 90% on one core
From: R. C. White on 5 Jul 2010 17:22
Hi, Charlie.

My original (before they called it Model I) TRS-80 used its 300-baud
mouse-ears modem to call long-distance and subscribe to CompuServe in 1979.
I kept account number 70045,237 until just a couple of years ago when I
finally stopped paying the bill for something I hadn't used in at least 10
years. In those TRS-DOS years, I used many BBSes - nearly all long-distance
because there were few local ones. Radio Shack had some very useful groups
and I was a major consumer and frequent contributor to those. Along the
way, I also participated in so many "online services" that I can't even
recall now. There was The Source, which CompuServe bought and buried.
Lexis/Nexis. Dow Jones Information Service. GEnie. Delphi. AOL (Charter
member) Many others! Finally, the Internet came to San Marcos in 1995
and - for the first time! - I could go online without a long distance phone
call. It was not at all unusual in the late 80s and early 90s, for me to
pay perhaps $20 a month for an online subscription to NetCom, for example,
PLUS $700 to the telephone company for 100 hours long-distance access in a
month! :>(

In all those years, I did not work for a company that paid my bills, so all
those costs came from my own bank account. And there were no company phone
lines or other such access methods. Until I got my broadband cable about 5
years ago, my mantra was, "One guy, one computer, one POTS phone line, no
net but the Internet." For the first dozen years, nobody else in town knew
anything about computers, either, so there was no one that I could ask. I
had to learn a lot more about them - from books and from hands-on with a
screwdriver - than I ever intended to know. Even Adam Osborne's
"Microcomputers - Volume 0" was way over my head, but I did learn a
smattering of Z-80 assembly language. I even programmed my own tax and
accounting programs in BASIC, until about GW BASIC, then bailed out and
never learned Visual BASIC, or even VBA. Haven't tried to program since
then. But, at least I learned that 1 KB is 1024 bytes, not 1,000 - and why.
;^}

I have almost resigned myself to the idea that we will be losing this
NEWSGROUP. But I hope we can continue this very healthy and useful
COMMUNITY of users in a newly-created FORUM. No, it will never be the same
as this NG. But it will be better than losing the community.

For now, it appears we must continue on two tracks. First, we can continue
this NG on our various Usenet mirrors. We MAY be able to maintain its
vitality with no help from Microsoft. Second, we must persuade Microsoft to
create a new Forum dedicated to 64-bit computing topics, and then we must
participate there as actively as we have done here to rebuild this community
there. Our efforts will be fragmented between the two venues, and one of
them will likely fade away, perhaps within a year.

If somebody has a better plan, I'd like to hear it.

RC
--
R. C. White, CPA
San Marcos, TX
rc(a)grandecom.net
Microsoft Windows MVP
Windows Live Mail 2010 (15.3.2804.0607) in Win7 Ultimate x64)


"Charlie Russel - MVP" wrote in message
news:3A4B7580-17B8-4A4F-8CA5-29EE7793077E(a)microsoft.com...

Interesting, though not particularly surprising. I actually started with all
of this back in the mid-80's, on CompuServe. There, the Forums were a far
different thing than the Forums of MS and others today, and far superior to
Usenet for their ability to build community and follow a discussion. I was a
sysop and wizop on the Borland forums, as a member of TeamB, but I was
around when Microsoft "discovered" those forums and created Microsoft CIS
Forums. Thus was born the MVP program, actually, modeled after TeamB, but
with an important difference - the MVP award is an annual award. TeamB was
for as long as you stayed even mildly active and wasn't subject to annual
renewals angst.

Microsoft abandoned CompuServe when it discovered Usenet and NNTP. The
Forums on CompuServe continued for many years after, even though the model
was dying (and the move by CompuServe to change out their underlying server
platform didn't help much, though it was essential. But bungled, IMHO.) In
fact, I still have my special 70007 CompuServe account last I checked.

This NG will continue for some time if we, as a dedicated core of community,
continue to use it. If MS gives us a home to move to in their Forum
structure, and we move, this NG will become moribund very quickly.

--
Charlie.
http://msmvps.com/blogs/russel


"John Turco" <jtur(a)concentric.net> wrote in message
news:4C317839.35666335(a)concentric.net...
> My Usenet experience started in February, 1996; I've posted 3,200+
> articles, overall.
>
> In the summer of 2008 (August, I believe), I subscribed to these Microsoft
> Windows
> newsgroups (via a free NNTP server):
>
> microsoft.public.windows.vista.installation_setup (M.P.W.V.I_S)
> microsoft.public.windows.vista.general (M.P.W.V.G)
> microsoft.public.windows.64bit.general (M.P.W.64.G)
>
> I don't quite remember when I dropped M.P.W.V.G (2009, most likely). Yet,
> I do know
> that (in 2008 & '09) M.P.W.64.G's daily message count was the lowest of
> the lot, by
> a significant margin.
>
> Changes occurred, in the early part of 2010, when M.P.W.64.G eventually
> caught up
> to M.P.W.V.I_S (and soon, surged far ahead of it). Thus, MS's present
> program of
> axing its newsgroups, has effectively finished off the already-sagging
> M.P.W.V.I_S
> (which has had a sole article posted, after June 3, 2010).
>
> Usenet, in general, has suffered a lengthy and serious decline. It's been
> decimated
> by the continued rise of the "World Wide Web" (WWW), and such an
> unfortunate trend
> is what led to MS's decisive decision, in the first place. Many other
> companies
> (e.g., Creative Labs) and ISP's have cancelled their own news servers, as
> well.
>
> eBay is a perfect illustration of the problem. It, alone, practically
> destroyed
> the myriad "forsale" newsgroups.
>
> Or, how about this example?
>
> comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.cd-rom (C.S.I.P.H.C-R)
>
> C.S.I.P.H.C-R was my favorite, in 1998 and 1999 (I abandoned it, in late
> '99). By
> 2005, it was dying and now, it's virtually barren...with only 6 TOTAL
> messages (all
> spam, but 1), through the first six months of 2010.
>
> Consequently, I've remained as C.S.I.P.H.C-R's all-time leading poster,
> despite a
> relatively paltry number of 535 articles (193 ahead of the next-highest
> contributor).
>
> Here's another sorry story:
>
> comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.storage (C.S.I.P.H.S)
>
> I've been there (both reading and posting), dating to January or February,
> 2003.
> C.S.I.P.H.S's steady downward spiral has resulted in this sad situation:
> Zero
> posts, June 30-July 4, 2010.
>
> So, did Microsoft suddenly "pull the plug" on C.S.I.P.H.S, or even possess
> the
> power to do so? Of course not.
>
> Although, ironically, C.S.I.P.H.S hasn't seen >any< activity, since June
> 30 --
> the day before MS officially "closed" M.P.W.64.G!
>
> During that same span, I'd estimate M.P.W.64.G has received approximately
> 88
> messages. Not bad, for a reputedly "dead" newsgroup, eh?
>
> In the final analysis, Usenet's long-term survival is a question,
> considerably
> more important than M.P.W.64.G's ultimate fate. Neither shall die, if
> enough
> caring people participate in constructive, on-topic threads.
>
> --
> Cordially,
> John Turco <jtur(a)concentric.net>

From: Charlie Russel - MVP on 5 Jul 2010 18:25
Nope, that's exactly my approach. Continue this as we can, while we work
actively to have Microsoft _listen_ to its users and create a 64bit Forum. I
started this discussion back in early May, after all, with MS. Was assured
it wouldn't be a problem, etc. And then the word a few days before the
planned closing that "no, we don't think you need one and we know what's
best for you". Which you and I did not receive well.<G> Now we at least
have Keith Combs, from MS, posting here. Perhaps he'll understand the need.

If we do get a Forum, I'll be there. And I'll keep my eye on this NG too,
but I expect this one to go away over time. OTOH, it costs me nothing to
grab any current messages to see if there's someone who's looking for help.

--
Charlie.
http://msmvps.com/blogs/russel




"R. C. White" <rc(a)grandecom.net> wrote in message
news:uZAhh5IHLHA.2276(a)TK2MSFTNGP06.phx.gbl...
> Hi, Charlie.
>
> My original (before they called it Model I) TRS-80 used its 300-baud
> mouse-ears modem to call long-distance and subscribe to CompuServe in
> 1979. I kept account number 70045,237 until just a couple of years ago
> when I finally stopped paying the bill for something I hadn't used in at
> least 10 years. In those TRS-DOS years, I used many BBSes - nearly all
> long-distance because there were few local ones. Radio Shack had some
> very useful groups and I was a major consumer and frequent contributor to
> those. Along the way, I also participated in so many "online services"
> that I can't even recall now. There was The Source, which CompuServe
> bought and buried. Lexis/Nexis. Dow Jones Information Service. GEnie.
> Delphi. AOL (Charter member) Many others! Finally, the Internet came to
> San Marcos in 1995 and - for the first time! - I could go online without a
> long distance phone call. It was not at all unusual in the late 80s and
> early 90s, for me to pay perhaps $20 a month for an online subscription to
> NetCom, for example, PLUS $700 to the telephone company for 100 hours
> long-distance access in a month! :>(
>
> In all those years, I did not work for a company that paid my bills, so
> all those costs came from my own bank account. And there were no company
> phone lines or other such access methods. Until I got my broadband cable
> about 5 years ago, my mantra was, "One guy, one computer, one POTS phone
> line, no net but the Internet." For the first dozen years, nobody else in
> town knew anything about computers, either, so there was no one that I
> could ask. I had to learn a lot more about them - from books and from
> hands-on with a screwdriver - than I ever intended to know. Even Adam
> Osborne's "Microcomputers - Volume 0" was way over my head, but I did
> learn a smattering of Z-80 assembly language. I even programmed my own
> tax and accounting programs in BASIC, until about GW BASIC, then bailed
> out and never learned Visual BASIC, or even VBA. Haven't tried to program
> since then. But, at least I learned that 1 KB is 1024 bytes, not 1,000 -
> and why. ;^}
>
> I have almost resigned myself to the idea that we will be losing this
> NEWSGROUP. But I hope we can continue this very healthy and useful
> COMMUNITY of users in a newly-created FORUM. No, it will never be the
> same as this NG. But it will be better than losing the community.
>
> For now, it appears we must continue on two tracks. First, we can
> continue this NG on our various Usenet mirrors. We MAY be able to
> maintain its vitality with no help from Microsoft. Second, we must
> persuade Microsoft to create a new Forum dedicated to 64-bit computing
> topics, and then we must participate there as actively as we have done
> here to rebuild this community there. Our efforts will be fragmented
> between the two venues, and one of them will likely fade away, perhaps
> within a year.
>
> If somebody has a better plan, I'd like to hear it.
>
> RC
> --
> R. C. White, CPA
> San Marcos, TX
> rc(a)grandecom.net
> Microsoft Windows MVP
> Windows Live Mail 2010 (15.3.2804.0607) in Win7 Ultimate x64)
>
>
> "Charlie Russel - MVP" wrote in message
> news:3A4B7580-17B8-4A4F-8CA5-29EE7793077E(a)microsoft.com...
>
> Interesting, though not particularly surprising. I actually started with
> all
> of this back in the mid-80's, on CompuServe. There, the Forums were a far
> different thing than the Forums of MS and others today, and far superior
> to
> Usenet for their ability to build community and follow a discussion. I was
> a
> sysop and wizop on the Borland forums, as a member of TeamB, but I was
> around when Microsoft "discovered" those forums and created Microsoft CIS
> Forums. Thus was born the MVP program, actually, modeled after TeamB, but
> with an important difference - the MVP award is an annual award. TeamB was
> for as long as you stayed even mildly active and wasn't subject to annual
> renewals angst.
>
> Microsoft abandoned CompuServe when it discovered Usenet and NNTP. The
> Forums on CompuServe continued for many years after, even though the model
> was dying (and the move by CompuServe to change out their underlying
> server
> platform didn't help much, though it was essential. But bungled, IMHO.) In
> fact, I still have my special 70007 CompuServe account last I checked.
>
> This NG will continue for some time if we, as a dedicated core of
> community,
> continue to use it. If MS gives us a home to move to in their Forum
> structure, and we move, this NG will become moribund very quickly.
>
> --
> Charlie.
> http://msmvps.com/blogs/russel
>
>
> "John Turco" <jtur(a)concentric.net> wrote in message
> news:4C317839.35666335(a)concentric.net...
>> My Usenet experience started in February, 1996; I've posted 3,200+
>> articles, overall.
>>
>> In the summer of 2008 (August, I believe), I subscribed to these
>> Microsoft Windows
>> newsgroups (via a free NNTP server):
>>
>> microsoft.public.windows.vista.installation_setup (M.P.W.V.I_S)
>> microsoft.public.windows.vista.general (M.P.W.V.G)
>> microsoft.public.windows.64bit.general (M.P.W.64.G)
>>
>> I don't quite remember when I dropped M.P.W.V.G (2009, most likely). Yet,
>> I do know
>> that (in 2008 & '09) M.P.W.64.G's daily message count was the lowest of
>> the lot, by
>> a significant margin.
>>
>> Changes occurred, in the early part of 2010, when M.P.W.64.G eventually
>> caught up
>> to M.P.W.V.I_S (and soon, surged far ahead of it). Thus, MS's present
>> program of
>> axing its newsgroups, has effectively finished off the already-sagging
>> M.P.W.V.I_S
>> (which has had a sole article posted, after June 3, 2010).
>>
>> Usenet, in general, has suffered a lengthy and serious decline. It's been
>> decimated
>> by the continued rise of the "World Wide Web" (WWW), and such an
>> unfortunate trend
>> is what led to MS's decisive decision, in the first place. Many other
>> companies
>> (e.g., Creative Labs) and ISP's have cancelled their own news servers, as
>> well.
>>
>> eBay is a perfect illustration of the problem. It, alone, practically
>> destroyed
>> the myriad "forsale" newsgroups.
>>
>> Or, how about this example?
>>
>> comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.cd-rom (C.S.I.P.H.C-R)
>>
>> C.S.I.P.H.C-R was my favorite, in 1998 and 1999 (I abandoned it, in late
>> '99). By
>> 2005, it was dying and now, it's virtually barren...with only 6 TOTAL
>> messages (all
>> spam, but 1), through the first six months of 2010.
>>
>> Consequently, I've remained as C.S.I.P.H.C-R's all-time leading poster,
>> despite a
>> relatively paltry number of 535 articles (193 ahead of the next-highest
>> contributor).
>>
>> Here's another sorry story:
>>
>> comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.storage (C.S.I.P.H.S)
>>
>> I've been there (both reading and posting), dating to January or
>> February, 2003.
>> C.S.I.P.H.S's steady downward spiral has resulted in this sad situation:
>> Zero
>> posts, June 30-July 4, 2010.
>>
>> So, did Microsoft suddenly "pull the plug" on C.S.I.P.H.S, or even
>> possess the
>> power to do so? Of course not.
>>
>> Although, ironically, C.S.I.P.H.S hasn't seen >any< activity, since June
>> 30 --
>> the day before MS officially "closed" M.P.W.64.G!
>>
>> During that same span, I'd estimate M.P.W.64.G has received approximately
>> 88
>> messages. Not bad, for a reputedly "dead" newsgroup, eh?
>>
>> In the final analysis, Usenet's long-term survival is a question,
>> considerably
>> more important than M.P.W.64.G's ultimate fate. Neither shall die, if
>> enough
>> caring people participate in constructive, on-topic threads.
>>
>> --
>> Cordially,
>> John Turco <jtur(a)concentric.net>
>

 | 
Pages: 1
Prev: How can I remove photoview
Next: CPU running continuously at 90% on one core