PCI Express Card
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From: Tinkerer on 23 Dec 2009 11:10 The graphics card in a friends computer has died. It is a PCI Express x1 card. Looking at the available cards there seem to be only a few of this type and they are fairly expensive whereas for his needs something much cheaper would be adequate. Looking at other PCI Express cards, there are indeed cheaper options available, but I do not know if we can use a different PCI Express spec. I have noticed PCI Express, PCI Express 2, PCI Express 2x16 and others. What type(s) can I use in this PCI Express x1 slot? -- Tinkerer
From: Paul on 23 Dec 2009 12:09 Tinkerer wrote: > The graphics card in a friends computer has died. It is a PCI Express x1 > card. Looking at the available cards there seem to be only a few of this > type and they are fairly expensive whereas for his needs something much > cheaper would be adequate. Looking at other PCI Express cards, there are > indeed cheaper options available, but I do not know if we can use a > different PCI Express spec. I have noticed PCI Express, PCI Express 2, > PCI Express 2x16 and others. What type(s) can I use in this PCI Express x1 > slot? PCI Express comes in two speeds. PCI Express Rev 1 is 250MB/sec per lane. PCi Express Rev 2 is 500MB/sec per lane. Rev 2 is compatible with Rev 1. If a Rev 2 device is plugged into a Rev 1 slot, it is supposed to run at Rev 1 speeds. There are very few PCI Express x1 slots running at Rev 2 speeds. The majority today are Rev 1. You should take a careful look at your friend's computer, and see what spare slots are available. PCI Express x1 is better than PCI, 250MB/sec versus 133MB/sec. Buying a PCI video card might be an option, but not the best option. The computer may also have an AGP slot, and there are still AGP video cards. The newer cards use a bridge chip, Rialto for ATI cards, HSI for Nvidia cards. The bridge chip converts a PCI Express GPU, to work with an AGP slot. The best support might be for AGP 4x or 8x slots, as the bridge chip may only run at 1.5V. If you have a really old motherboard (like my 440BX motherboard), it has a 3.3V AGP slot, and the newer AGP bridged cards probably wouldn't fit into the slot (the 3.3V key would prevent it). Info on fitting AGP cards is here. http://www.playtool.com/pages/agpcompat/agp.html Summary: 1) PCI Express x16 slot - 4GB/sec or 8GB/sec bandwidth. Would work with modern PCI Express video cards of either revision. Only a couple cards had issues, when Rev 2 first came out. They should all work now. 2) PCI Express x1 - harder to find replacement cards. 250MB/sec 3) PCI slot - the most common slot type, in terms of it being available in most computers. Some cards are available. Severely restricted bandwidth, 133MB/sec. 4) AGP slot. 8x = 2133MB/sec 4x=1066MB/sec. 1.5V VIO on those. (Bridged) AGP video cards may run at 1.5V. Fewer options for a 3.3V keyed AGP slot, with much older GPUs supporting that. See Playtool.com for details. Newegg shows two video cards with PCI Express x1. This one is low profile, and even includes low profile faceplates for fitting in a "Dell slim". Fan is noisy. Card is expensive at $105. Card may accept an after-market heatsink and fan, if a better cooler is desired. http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814161280 Post the make and model of computer, if you need more assistance. Also indicate what slots are occupied or are empty. ******* A PCI Express x16 card could fit into an x1 slot... if the end of the slot was cut off :-) Surgery would be risky, and involve a Dremel. The orange slot here, is an "open ended" x4 slot. It will accept an x16 card. This is a picture of a motherboard, where the slot installed on the computer, is open on the end on purpose. http://www.hothardware.com/articleimages/item830/big_12.jpg The x4 slot (top one) here has the more normal "closed end" and only a x1 or x4 card will fit. Dremeling out the bir on the end, could make it "open ended" - assuming the connector doesn't spring apart too much. http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/f/fc/PCIExpress.jpg In theory, a PCI Express x16 card can operate at x16, x8, x4, x2, x1. But experience varies as to how a card will respond if plugged into some of the lower end options. For example, my motherboard has x4 wiring of a x16 slot, and not all video cards will work in it. So while grinding the center section out of the end of the PCI Express x1 connector would make more card options available to you, I can't promise all the cards will work without issue. The "x16, x8, x4, x2, x1" thing was tested here. http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/sli-coming,927.html HTH, Paul
From: Jan Alter on 23 Dec 2009 13:04 "Paul" <nospam(a)needed.com> wrote in message news:hgtirv$f4k$1(a)news.eternal-september.org... > Tinkerer wrote: >> The graphics card in a friends computer has died. It is a PCI Express >> x1 card. Looking at the available cards there seem to be only a few of >> this type and they are fairly expensive whereas for his needs something >> much cheaper would be adequate. Looking at other PCI Express cards, >> there are indeed cheaper options available, but I do not know if we can >> use a different PCI Express spec. I have noticed PCI Express, PCI >> Express 2, PCI Express 2x16 and others. What type(s) can I use in this >> PCI Express x1 slot? > > PCI Express comes in two speeds. PCI Express Rev 1 is 250MB/sec per lane. > PCi Express Rev 2 is 500MB/sec per lane. Rev 2 is compatible with Rev 1. > If a Rev 2 device is plugged into a Rev 1 slot, it is supposed to run > at Rev 1 speeds. > > There are very few PCI Express x1 slots running at Rev 2 speeds. The > majority today are Rev 1. > > You should take a careful look at your friend's computer, and see > what spare slots are available. PCI Express x1 is better than PCI, > 250MB/sec versus 133MB/sec. Buying a PCI video card might be > an option, but not the best option. > > The computer may also have an AGP slot, and there are still AGP > video cards. The newer cards use a bridge chip, Rialto for ATI > cards, HSI for Nvidia cards. The bridge chip converts a PCI > Express GPU, to work with an AGP slot. The best support might > be for AGP 4x or 8x slots, as the bridge chip may only run at > 1.5V. If you have a really old motherboard (like my 440BX motherboard), > it has a 3.3V AGP slot, and the newer AGP bridged cards probably > wouldn't fit into the slot (the 3.3V key would prevent it). > > Info on fitting AGP cards is here. > > http://www.playtool.com/pages/agpcompat/agp.html > > Summary: > > 1) PCI Express x16 slot - 4GB/sec or 8GB/sec bandwidth. Would work with > modern PCI Express video cards of either revision. Only a couple > cards had issues, when Rev 2 first came out. They should all work now. > > 2) PCI Express x1 - harder to find replacement cards. 250MB/sec > > 3) PCI slot - the most common slot type, in terms of it being > available in most computers. Some cards are available. > Severely restricted bandwidth, 133MB/sec. > > 4) AGP slot. 8x = 2133MB/sec 4x=1066MB/sec. 1.5V VIO on those. > (Bridged) AGP video cards may run at 1.5V. Fewer options > for a 3.3V keyed AGP slot, with much older GPUs supporting > that. See Playtool.com for details. > > Newegg shows two video cards with PCI Express x1. This one is > low profile, and even includes low profile faceplates for fitting > in a "Dell slim". Fan is noisy. Card is expensive at $105. > Card may accept an after-market heatsink and fan, if a better > cooler is desired. > > http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814161280 > > Post the make and model of computer, if you need more assistance. > Also indicate what slots are occupied or are empty. > > ******* > > A PCI Express x16 card could fit into an x1 slot... if the end > of the slot was cut off :-) Surgery would be risky, and involve > a Dremel. > > The orange slot here, is an "open ended" x4 slot. It will accept > an x16 card. This is a picture of a motherboard, where the slot > installed on the computer, is open on the end on purpose. > > http://www.hothardware.com/articleimages/item830/big_12.jpg > > The x4 slot (top one) here has the more normal "closed end" and only > a x1 or x4 card will fit. Dremeling out the bir on the end, could > make it "open ended" - assuming the connector doesn't spring apart > too much. > > http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/f/fc/PCIExpress.jpg > > In theory, a PCI Express x16 card can operate at x16, x8, x4, x2, x1. > But experience varies as to how a card will respond if plugged into > some of the lower end options. For example, my motherboard has > x4 wiring of a x16 slot, and not all video cards will work in > it. So while grinding the center section out of the end of the > PCI Express x1 connector would make more card options available > to you, I can't promise all the cards will work without issue. > > The "x16, x8, x4, x2, x1" thing was tested here. > > http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/sli-coming,927.html > > HTH, > Paul As for the course Paul gives a very comprehensive explanation to the question. Additionally, if you locate a PCI V 2. card that would fall back to V. 1 also look at the specs required for the card to operate in the computer. Quite often a minimum wattage for the power supply is indicated. In my own experience, if the card is still on the lower end one can get away with a 300 watt ps. -- Jan Alter bearpuf(a)verizon.net
From: kony on 23 Dec 2009 16:56
On Wed, 23 Dec 2009 16:10:18 -0000, "Tinkerer" <invalidaddress(a)invalidaddress.invalid> wrote: >The graphics card in a friends computer has died. It is a PCI Express x1 >card. Are you shure? Those are kind of rare, perhaps it is a PCIe 1.0 card rather than x1? What motherboard does your friend have and what slots are available for the card, if it is a PCIe x1 card and other slots might be useful instead? Generally if some other slot is available there is little reason to get a PCIe x1 card, certainly not for performance since no "performance" oriented card comes in PCIe x1 format. Best to make a list of the requirements for the card, like the monitor output port type, # of outputs needed, whether it needs any particular level of gaming ability, the budget, whether case can use and a passive (fanless) card would be desired, one with a fan, one that is easier to clean dust out of or instead one that exhausts out the rear of the case to make cooling a bit easier (but often double-height blocking the next adjacent motherboard slot). >Looking at the available cards there seem to be only a few of this >type and they are fairly expensive whereas for his needs something much >cheaper would be adequate. Looking at other PCI Express cards, there are >indeed cheaper options available, but I do not know if we can use a >different PCI Express spec. I have noticed PCI Express, PCI Express 2, >PCI Express 2x16 and others. What type(s) can I use in this PCI Express x1 >slot? Are you sure it is a PCIe 1x slot? If it is 4x, 8x or 16x, no need to get another 1x card if that is what it is. What make and model of card is it that died? |