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From: Jon Kirwan on 10 Jun 2010 13:12
On Thu, 10 Jun 2010 12:14:10 +0200, David Brown
<david(a)westcontrol.removethisbit.com> wrote:

><snip>
>Whenever someone starts looking at a new topic, they are "uninformed" by
>definition. Microchip targets this area very successfully.
>
>I have no facts or figures to back this up,

I was going to ask, "How so?" to the first paragraph and then
read this. So I guess I can't ask that question, now. It's
seems now apocryphal and must simply be left there.

>but I would expect that most
>PIC users used PICs as their first microcontroller.

I certainly don't help you there. I have had long, long
experience with other micros before using PIC micros.. going
back to the MITS ALTAIR 8800 I built circa 1975.

>Relatively few will
>have switched from other devices to PICs.

Again, I guess I'm a data point of one against your point.

Jon
From: WangoTango on 10 Jun 2010 14:29
In article <927216hmj2d0ia2ka39vefa2trqnit0rdb(a)4ax.com>,
jonk(a)infinitefactors.org says...
> On Thu, 10 Jun 2010 12:14:10 +0200, David Brown
> <david(a)westcontrol.removethisbit.com> wrote:
>
> ><snip>
> >Whenever someone starts looking at a new topic, they are "uninformed" by
> >definition. Microchip targets this area very successfully.
> >
> >I have no facts or figures to back this up,
>
> I was going to ask, "How so?" to the first paragraph and then
> read this. So I guess I can't ask that question, now. It's
> seems now apocryphal and must simply be left there.
>
> >but I would expect that most
> >PIC users used PICs as their first microcontroller.
>
> I certainly don't help you there. I have had long, long
> experience with other micros before using PIC micros.. going
> back to the MITS ALTAIR 8800 I built circa 1975.
>
> >Relatively few will
> >have switched from other devices to PICs.
>
> Again, I guess I'm a data point of one against your point.
>
> Jon
>
Me too.
I was a BIG Motorola/Freescale, Zilog, and Philips guy for ~15 years
before switching most of our products over to different PIC variants,
and have done lots and lots of new products using PICs. A good cross
compiler can hide a lot of the nasty stuff, and the newer parts have
fixed some of the more annoying gotcha's. I like the fact that they
still make a lot of DIP parts, and they seem to always have a pin for
pin compatible upwards migration path. Something Motorola couldn't seem
to get their heads wrapped around.

Jim
From: Jon Kirwan on 10 Jun 2010 14:57
On Thu, 10 Jun 2010 14:29:56 -0400, WangoTango
<Asgard24(a)mindspring.com> wrote:

>In article <927216hmj2d0ia2ka39vefa2trqnit0rdb(a)4ax.com>,
>jonk(a)infinitefactors.org says...
>> On Thu, 10 Jun 2010 12:14:10 +0200, David Brown
>> <david(a)westcontrol.removethisbit.com> wrote:
>>
>> ><snip>
>> >Whenever someone starts looking at a new topic, they are "uninformed" by
>> >definition. Microchip targets this area very successfully.
>> >
>> >I have no facts or figures to back this up,
>>
>> I was going to ask, "How so?" to the first paragraph and then
>> read this. So I guess I can't ask that question, now. It's
>> seems now apocryphal and must simply be left there.
>>
>> >but I would expect that most
>> >PIC users used PICs as their first microcontroller.
>>
>> I certainly don't help you there. I have had long, long
>> experience with other micros before using PIC micros.. going
>> back to the MITS ALTAIR 8800 I built circa 1975.
>>
>> >Relatively few will
>> >have switched from other devices to PICs.
>>
>> Again, I guess I'm a data point of one against your point.
>>
>> Jon
>>
>Me too.
>I was a BIG Motorola/Freescale, Zilog, and Philips guy for ~15 years
>before switching most of our products over to different PIC variants,
>and have done lots and lots of new products using PICs. A good cross
>compiler can hide a lot of the nasty stuff, and the newer parts have
>fixed some of the more annoying gotcha's. I like the fact that they
>still make a lot of DIP parts, and they seem to always have a pin for
>pin compatible upwards migration path. Something Motorola couldn't seem
>to get their heads wrapped around.

They support their tools and parts nearly forever and are a
"how high" jumper when asked to jump. They don't question or
grill me about how many parts I will buy from them before
getting in gear and helping out and never ever hassle me.
They simply apply their shoulders to my problem and move me
forward, each and every time, without question or bother.

Hard to find that elsewhere.

Jon
From: Jon Kirwan on 10 Jun 2010 15:09
On Thu, 10 Jun 2010 14:29:56 -0400, WangoTango
<Asgard24(a)mindspring.com> wrote:

><snip>
>and the newer parts have fixed some of the more annoying gotcha's.
><snip>

That's either a point in favor or against Microchip,
depending on your point of view. I like it, so I consider it
"a good thing." Texas Instruments, for all I can tell when
looking, _never_ fixes any silicon bugs. Microchip keeps a
long laundry list of them and actually _works_ at fixing the
important ones over time. To see that, look at A3 silicon
errata for the PIC18F2525 part and then compare it with the
B5 stepping's errata, for example. Then take a look at the
MSP430F149, namely SLAZ017D, and see if they ever fixed
anything even like the CPU4 bug, regardless of stepping.

Jon
From: Mel on 10 Jun 2010 15:39
David Brown wrote:
> [ ... ] I would expect that most
> PIC users used PICs as their first microcontroller. Relatively few will
> have switched from other devices to PICs.

Not necessarily. The shop I work with started with H64180, aka Z180. When
they needed peripherals to be hung off the H64180, plus a little raw speed,
they/we picked on PIC16 at the top clock rate. One wouldn't say they ever
switched, though. The Z180s are still being used for the big part of the
application, and PIC for the accessories.

Latest development is with PIC32 (which aren't really PIC,) and Mini-ITX
motherboards (which aren't really Z180.) And USB is replacing SPI.

Mel.


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