Please help with dead system
in [Chips]
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From: The little lost angel on 20 Nov 2006 22:18 On Mon, 20 Nov 2006 19:00:57 -0500, Tony Hill <hilla_nospam_20(a)yahoo.com> wrote: >??? Uhh, care to point to some "specification" for sig delimiting?! >---------------------------- >Tony Hill >hilla <underscore> 20 <at> yahoo <dot> ca RFC 2646 (on format=flowed etc) includes: 4.3. Usenet Signature Convention There is a convention in Usenet news of using "-- " as the separator line between the body and the signature of a message. When generating a Format=Flowed message containing a Usenet-style separator before the signature, the separator line is sent as-is. This is a special case; an (optionally quoted) line consisting of DASH DASH SP is not considered flowed. Sorry! =X -- A Lost Angel, fallen from heaven Lost in dreams, Lost in aspirations, Lost to the world, Lost to myself
From: Arno Wagner on 21 Nov 2006 08:25 In comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.misc Trent <none(a)dev.nul.pissoff> wrote: > On Mon, 20 Nov 2006 19:00:57 -0500 Tony Hill <hilla_nospam_20(a)yahoo.com> > wrote in Message id: <bbc4m2pbkopd02l318ptcpqd7f1b5qnt1i(a)4ax.com>: >>On Mon, 20 Nov 2006 07:06:54 -0500, Trent <none(a)dev.nul.pissoff> >>wrote: >>>On Sat, 18 Nov 2006 19:00:43 -0500 Tony Hill <hilla_nospam_20(a)yahoo.com> >>>wrote in Message id: <0b5vl2ddh90fa7ba8gtd6kcp280e7gsksh(a)4ax.com>: >>>>That is definitely false. I have pretty extensive experience on HP's >>>>Business Desktop line, and every one of them will give you a beep code >>>>(3 beeps) if there is no processor installed in the system. See page >>>>A-13 from the following document: >>>> >>>>http://h20000.www2.hp.com/bizsupport/TechSupport/CoreRedirect.jsp?redirectReason=DocIndexPDF&prodSeriesId=472276&targetPage=http%3A%2F%2Fh20000.www2.hp.com%2Fbc%2Fdocs%2Fsupport%2FSupportManual%2Fc00368814%2Fc00368814.pdf >>> >>>I'd be curious to see a schematic of this motherboard, most likely it's a >>>simple watch dog timer which is triggered after a certain period of bus >>>inactivity. These are not the beep codes as referenced by the BIOS >>>manufacturers. >> >>Uhh.. if they aren't "beep codes" than what the heck do you call it >>when the system gives a beep in a specific sequence? I don't have the >>wiring diagram for how it works, but for all practical purposes it IS >>a POST beep code. > What part of "These are not the beep codes as referenced by the BIOS > manufacturers." flew over your head at mach 1? > In addition, it is not a true POST code. You DO know what a POST code is, > don't you? Concentrate on the "ST" part of "POST." >>>In any case, the OP in this thread's system is not an HP desktop it is a >>>homebuilt, and will not output POST beep codes if no CPU is present. >> >>And why not?! There's nothing magical about HP's systems. Ok, the >>link listed above uses the custom HP BIOS, but other HP systems using >>Award BIOSes also give the same beep codes. I know some current Asus >>boards can also detect that a CPU is not detected and play a voice >>message saying as much. > Why don't you point out on any BIOS manufacturers support web page where > there is a beep code for a missing CPU? > Do you honestly think that a traditional POST beep code can be generated > when no CPU is present and no code can be executed? You don't get it, do you? The 8042 has its own firmware and it is not part of the system BIOS.... Arno
From: Tony Hill on 22 Nov 2006 20:57 On Tue, 21 Nov 2006 03:18:38 GMT, a?n?g?e?l(a)lovergirl.lrigrevol.moc.com (The little lost angel) wrote: >On Mon, 20 Nov 2006 19:00:57 -0500, Tony Hill ><hilla_nospam_20(a)yahoo.com> wrote: >>??? Uhh, care to point to some "specification" for sig delimiting?! >>---------------------------- >>Tony Hill >>hilla <underscore> 20 <at> yahoo <dot> ca > >RFC 2646 (on format=flowed etc) includes: > > 4.3. Usenet Signature Convention > > There is a convention in Usenet news of using "-- " as the >separator > line between the body and the signature of a message. When > > generating a Format=Flowed message containing a Usenet-style > separator before the signature, the separator line is sent as-is. > This is a special case; an (optionally quoted) line consisting of > DASH DASH SP is not considered flowed. > >Sorry! =X Hehe, no problem L'Angle. I stand corrected, this does indeed seem to standard covering sig delimiting, I stand corrected. Should be fixed now. -- Tony Hill hilla <underscore> 20 <at> yahoo <dot> ca
From: Franc Zabkar on 23 Nov 2006 00:13 On Wed, 22 Nov 2006 20:57:22 -0500, Tony Hill <hilla_nospam_20(a)yahoo.com> put finger to keyboard and composed: >Do I honestly care about a "traditional POST" beep code? I'm talking >about the REAL WORLD of today! I don't care what the IBM XT or AT >did, because they haven't existed for ages! > >The fact of the matter is that MANY systems will give some form of >beep, LEDs or voice command if a CPU is missing during their power up >self-test. <snip> >Just in case you forgot what this discussion was all about, here is >exaclty how it started: > > >http://groups.google.com/group/comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.systems/browse_thread/thread/e75baff40e678220/e31d990701839d94?lnk=st&q=insubject%3APlease+insubject%3Ahelp+insubject%3Awith+insubject%3Adead+insubject%3Asystem+author%3Atony+author%3Ahill&rnum=1#e31d990701839d94 > ><quote> >>>>One thing you may try is removing the CPU and see whether you >>>>get beep codes. If you do not, then the mainboard is likely >>>>broken. >>> >>>If the CPU is not present or is not working, then you will not get any >>>beep codes. >> >>That depends entirely on the system and how the CPU failed. Some >>systems will beep if they do not detect a CPU, others will not. Of >>those that will beep if a CPU is not detected, they *might* beep if >>the CPU has failed or they might not. Beep codes are (usually) >>handled entirely by the motherboard with no CPU intervention. ><end quote> And there's the problem. If you had intended to mean that BIOS beep codes do not require a CPU, then that is clearly absurd. If OTOH you had intended to mean that certain low-level "pre-POST" checks could produce a beep in the absence of a CPU, then this is clearly an exception to the norm. Words such as "many" and "usual" are inappropriate, to say the least. Instead the OP should proceed on the more reasonable assumption that the motherboard will be inactive without a CPU. I'd hate to think that he could end up tossing a board simply because it was one of those 99.9% that needed a brain in order to beep, blink, or talk. >Now, I've already provided you with MANY examples of systems that WILL >produce beeps, LEDs or even a voice response if the CPU is not being >detected, so really the proof is in the pudding. You've provided *one* example ... maybe. As for those motherboards that can talk, I confess I have no experience with these. However, I found the manual for an Albatron Via motherboard which has a Voice Genie chip. I notice that the voice chip can be enabled or disabled via the BIOS setup. This suggests to me that the status of the chip would need to be fetched from CMOS RAM (or perhaps the flash BIOS) at power-on. Only a working CPU (and BIOS code) could do this. The only other [unlikely] alternative would be a user configurable area within the voice chip itself. As for the blinking LEDs, I've suggested on two occasions that they could be attached to a standard diagnostic port at 80h (such as is used by POST cards). I've even provided a simple DOS method to confirm or disprove this. - Franc Zabkar -- Please remove one 'i' from my address when replying by email.
From: Franc Zabkar on 23 Nov 2006 23:32
On 21 Nov 2006 00:22:55 GMT, Arno Wagner <me(a)privacy.net> put finger to keyboard and composed: >In comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.misc Tony Hill <hilla_nospam_20(a)yahoo.com> wrote: >> On Mon, 20 Nov 2006 07:06:54 -0500, Trent <none(a)dev.nul.pissoff> >> wrote: >>>On Sat, 18 Nov 2006 19:00:43 -0500 Tony Hill <hilla_nospam_20(a)yahoo.com> >>>wrote in Message id: <0b5vl2ddh90fa7ba8gtd6kcp280e7gsksh(a)4ax.com>: >> I'm not aware of any either, the keyboard controller seemed like a bit >> of an odd comment from another poster. The only connection I'm aware >> of between the POST error beeps and the keyboard controller is that >> some BIOSes will blink the LEDs on a keyboard to signify certain error >> codes. > >Ah, no. The keyboard controller is the prime suspect, because it is >a small computer of its own on the mainboard. The only ''intelligence'' >besides the main CPU, so it would be easy to have the "CPU missing" >detection in its software (which is in a ROM contained within the chip >or in the ASIC today). Yes, it would be easy, but you haven't produced a single example of where this is actually done. And that's what counts. Until you can produce one real world example, your idea remains just an idea. >The MCU inside the keyboard is actually still another controller. >The keyboard controller sits on the mainboard. In your original post you stated that "the beep codes are produced by the keyboard MCU and that will beep a 'CPU not present' if it is not contacted by the CPU after a certain time". After pondering this statement, it occurs to me that it cannot possibly be correct. If the keyboard MCU "is not contacted by the CPU after a certain time", then it has no way of distinguishing between any of several possible causes including "CPU not present", "CPU dead", "BIOS chip missing/corrupt", or "bad flash". - Franc Zabkar -- Please remove one 'i' from my address when replying by email. |