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From: Patrick Ben Koetter on 7 Aug 2010 16:10
* Stan Hoeppner <stan(a)hardwarefreak.com>:
> Julio Cesar Covolato put forth on 8/7/2010 12:37 AM:
>
> > Is there anyone using postfix in cloud, like Amazon ec2?
>
> Dunno about Postfix specifically, but there are/were many spammers operating
> out of the Amazon cloud as well as the Rackspace cloud. Even if they are
> clean now, their reputation is still low due to prior traffic.

ACK.

Ralf and I installed a Postfix system in the cloud and the system initially
had very low deliverability. Most of the recieving systems that declined
responded that our servers IP was banned.

p(a)rick

--
All technical questions asked privately will be automatically answered on the
list and archived for public access unless privacy is explicitely required and
justified.

saslfinger (debugging SMTP AUTH):
<http://postfix.state-of-mind.de/patrick.koetter/saslfinger/>

From: Jonathan Tripathy on 7 Aug 2010 16:24

On 07/08/10 21:10, Patrick Ben Koetter wrote:
> * Stan Hoeppner<stan(a)hardwarefreak.com>:
>
>> Julio Cesar Covolato put forth on 8/7/2010 12:37 AM:
>>
>>
>>> Is there anyone using postfix in cloud, like Amazon ec2?
>>>
>> Dunno about Postfix specifically, but there are/were many spammers operating
>> out of the Amazon cloud as well as the Rackspace cloud. Even if they are
>> clean now, their reputation is still low due to prior traffic.
>>
> ACK.
>
> Ralf and I installed a Postfix system in the cloud and the system initially
> had very low deliverability. Most of the recieving systems that declined
> responded that our servers IP was banned.
>
> p(a)rick
>
>

Do these only happen when postfix is sending mail from a cloud-based VPS?

From: Patrick Ben Koetter on 7 Aug 2010 16:47
* Jonathan Tripathy <jonnyt(a)abpni.co.uk>:
> On 07/08/10 21:10, Patrick Ben Koetter wrote:
> >* Stan Hoeppner<stan(a)hardwarefreak.com>:
> >>Julio Cesar Covolato put forth on 8/7/2010 12:37 AM:
> >>
> >>>Is there anyone using postfix in cloud, like Amazon ec2?
> >>Dunno about Postfix specifically, but there are/were many spammers operating
> >>out of the Amazon cloud as well as the Rackspace cloud. Even if they are
> >>clean now, their reputation is still low due to prior traffic.
> >ACK.
> >
> >Ralf and I installed a Postfix system in the cloud and the system initially
> >had very low deliverability. Most of the recieving systems that declined
> >responded that our servers IP was banned.
> >
> >p(a)rick
> >
>
> Do these only happen when postfix is sending mail from a cloud-based VPS?

Speaking for myself, until today I've haven't had any bad experiences with VPS
in general. Add "cloud" to VPS and the picture changes.

In the long run you can raise deliverabilty, but the question I guess
everybody needs to answer for themselves is whether it is worth battling for
it or not.

p(a)rick

--
All technical questions asked privately will be automatically answered on the
list and archived for public access unless privacy is explicitely required and
justified.

saslfinger (debugging SMTP AUTH):
<http://postfix.state-of-mind.de/patrick.koetter/saslfinger/>

From: Jonathan Tripathy on 7 Aug 2010 17:03

On 07/08/10 21:47, Patrick Ben Koetter wrote:
> * Jonathan Tripathy<jonnyt(a)abpni.co.uk>:
>
>> On 07/08/10 21:10, Patrick Ben Koetter wrote:
>>
>>> * Stan Hoeppner<stan(a)hardwarefreak.com>:
>>>
>>>> Julio Cesar Covolato put forth on 8/7/2010 12:37 AM:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> Is there anyone using postfix in cloud, like Amazon ec2?
>>>>>
>>>> Dunno about Postfix specifically, but there are/were many spammers operating
>>>> out of the Amazon cloud as well as the Rackspace cloud. Even if they are
>>>> clean now, their reputation is still low due to prior traffic.
>>>>
>>> ACK.
>>>
>>> Ralf and I installed a Postfix system in the cloud and the system initially
>>> had very low deliverability. Most of the recieving systems that declined
>>> responded that our servers IP was banned.
>>>
>>> p(a)rick
>>>
>>>
>> Do these only happen when postfix is sending mail from a cloud-based VPS?
>>
> Speaking for myself, until today I've haven't had any bad experiences with VPS
> in general. Add "cloud" to VPS and the picture changes.
>
> In the long run you can raise deliverabilty, but the question I guess
> everybody needs to answer for themselves is whether it is worth battling for
> it or not.
>
> p(a)rick
>
>

I guess my question is a little more general than this topic: do
providers ever block *who* mail is sent to?

From: Stan Hoeppner on 7 Aug 2010 20:09
Jonathan Tripathy put forth on 8/7/2010 8:09 AM:

> Of course, VPS ISPs should always do checks to make sure
> that a person signing up is who they say they are -

Herein lies the problem. The low cost business model of cloud/VPS precludes
providers from doing any kind of meaningful customer vetting, or proper egress
filtering for that matter to identify spammers on their network. If they did
so, they would have to raise their prices, which they aren't going to do
because their competitors aren't doing it either. This is no secret. It's
been discussed on spam fighting lists for some time now.

> A simple credit card
> name and address would suffice I guess.

No, it doesn't. Spammers all use stolen credit cards when they sign up for
cloud/VPS. They spam from the accounts for a month or 3 until the card owner
or issuer fraud detection system becomes wise. Then they do the same thing at
another cloud/VPS provider with a different stolen credit card. Rinse,
repeat. This has also been discussed for some time on spam fighting lists.

Maybe it would benefit you to sign up to spam-l or nanae to keep abreast of
the tactics spammers are using these days. If you had already been, you'd
understand why cloud/VPS providers are generally considered dirty mail
sources, requiring a receiver SOP of blacklisting all cloud/VPS, whitelist IPs
when necessary.

--
Stan

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