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From: Simon on 5 Sep 2008 14:10
Arno Wagner <me(a)privacy.net> wrote:
> Previously chrisv <chrisv(a)nospam.invalid> wrote:
>> chrisv wrote:
>
>>> In my experience, 10+ years of lifetime is routine and, really,
>>> expected from an electronic device.
>
>> If you want, you can come-over and I'll fire-up my circa 1985 Amiga
>> A1000 for you. (But I conceed that the HD is newer - circa 1989
>> 8).
>
> No need, I have an Atari ST that works fine. But
> this is not "lifetime". This is "shelf live unoperational".

Plenty have had TVs work fine for that long, including me.
And that isnt shelf life unoperational, thats daily use.

> And that Atari ST has some replaced electrolythes,
> because I had to fix them to solve a stability problem.

And most of us have had TVs that havent needed any electos replaced.

>> Alas, my (also) circa 1985 Sony KV25XBR died within the last year,
>> after over two decades of heavy use...

> Good design then. My (expensive) Sony Vaio died after 2 years of
> light use. The cause was chipset overheating due to inadequate cooling.

> It just boild down to several things:

> - Treat electronics well and they will live longer

Treat a properly designed TV normally and it will last a hell of lot longer than your mindlessly silly claim at the top.

> - It is statistics. Lifetime is just when failures start to get more likely.
> Some things die withing a year, some keep 20 years. Can still be 5 years lifetime.

Not when the vast bulk of TVs do a lot better than 5 years.

> - Not all failures kill a thing. Some do not matter at all.
> - Personal experience is not a global predictor.

Decent stats are tho.


From: Simon on 5 Sep 2008 14:11
chrisv <chrisv(a)nospam.invalid> wrote
> Arno Wagner wrote

>>>> while electrolytes die after 3-5 years or so, depending on temperature and quality.

>>> Fantasy.

>> Read a datasheet.

> Umm... Arno, many (most?) of us have first-hand experience with
> electronics lasting MUCH longer than that. And of they all, in
> general, use electrolytic caps.

> In my experience, 10+ years of lifetime is routine
> and, really, expected from an electronic device.

Yeah, he's never had a clue about the basics.


From: Squeeze on 5 Sep 2008 11:29
Franc Zabkar wrote in news:9fj0c4l07uqkpmu7ov1hn30b4qjdn6m6e7(a)4ax.com
> My MPF3204AT Fujitsu 20GB HDD's Power On Time Count just triggered a
> SMART warning after dropping below the threshold of 20.
>
> The raw value is currently 43763894 seconds, ie 12156 hours.
>
> OTOH my 120GB Seagate drive is currently at ...
>
> Power On Hours Count 9 0 99 99 0000000005DDh (1501)

> ... so its expected life appears to be somewhere between 150,100 and
> 75,050 hours.

Based upon what?

>
> Are these numbers realistic, ie has hard disc reliability really
> improved that much? I don't think so.
>
> The Fujitsu datasheet ...
>
> http://www2.fcpa.fujitsu.com/sp_support/ext/desktop/datasheets/mpf3xxxat-datasheet.pdf
>
> ... specifies the number of start/stop cycles as 40,000.
>
> A log of SMART reports shows the following:
>
> Start/Stop Count 4 16 98 98 000000000578h EC
> Start/Stop Count 4 16 97 97 00000000057Dh EC
>
> This suggests that each point represents about 468 starts, and a loss
> of 84 points represents 39,340 start/stop cycles which roughly tallies
> with the spec.
>
> - Franc Zabkar
From: Squeeze on 5 Sep 2008 11:32
Arno Wagner wrote in news:6ibdi6FpgthqU1(a)mid.individual.net
> Previously Simon <192900(a)spam.com> wrote:
> > Arno Wagner <me(a)privacy.net> wrote:
> > > Previously Franc Zabkar <fzabkar(a)iinternode.on.net> wrote:
[snip]
>
> > > while electrolytes die after 3-5 years or so, depending on temperature and quality.
>
> > Fantasy.
>
> Read a datasheet.

Maybe there are no electrolytic capacitors in my 25 year old TV then.
Or perhaps they are of milititary spec, right, Babblebot?

[snip]

>
> You have no clue.

But you have, Babblebot. Other may call it a braintumor though.

> On a guess I would say one of the usual clueless bigmouths,

> hiding behind a new name,

Unlike you, eh Babblebot.
Clueless, big mouth, but hey, at least you use your own name.

> because nobody listens anymore.

Would that nobody be you, babblebot?
Courtesy of your extensive kill file?
Making you conveniently deaf.

>
> Arno
From: Arno Wagner on 5 Sep 2008 21:24
Previously Simon <192900(a)spam.com> wrote:
> Arno Wagner <me(a)privacy.net> wrote:
>> Previously chrisv <chrisv(a)nospam.invalid> wrote:
>>> chrisv wrote:
>>
>>>> In my experience, 10+ years of lifetime is routine and, really,
>>>> expected from an electronic device.
>>
>>> If you want, you can come-over and I'll fire-up my circa 1985 Amiga
>>> A1000 for you. (But I conceed that the HD is newer - circa 1989
>>> 8).
>>
>> No need, I have an Atari ST that works fine. But
>> this is not "lifetime". This is "shelf live unoperational".

> Plenty have had TVs work fine for that long, including me.
> And that isnt shelf life unoperational, thats daily use.

And that is a TV, not a HDD and has different engineering
parameters.

>> And that Atari ST has some replaced electrolythes,
>> because I had to fix them to solve a stability problem.

> And most of us have had TVs that havent needed any electos replaced.

See above.

>>> Alas, my (also) circa 1985 Sony KV25XBR died within the last year,
>>> after over two decades of heavy use...

>> Good design then. My (expensive) Sony Vaio died after 2 years of
>> light use. The cause was chipset overheating due to inadequate cooling.

>> It just boild down to several things:

>> - Treat electronics well and they will live longer

> Treat a properly designed TV normally and it will last a hell of lot longer than your mindlessly silly claim at the top.

No argument from me. But the TV set comparison is completely
besides the point.

>> - It is statistics. Lifetime is just when failures start to get more likely.
>> Some things die withing a year, some keep 20 years. Can still be 5 years lifetime.

> Not when the vast bulk of TVs do a lot better than 5 years.

Huh? Did you read the sentence I wrote?

>> - Not all failures kill a thing. Some do not matter at all.
>> - Personal experience is not a global predictor.

> Decent stats are tho.

Indeed.

Arno

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