Power Supply fan stopped blowing!
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From: Bob on 15 Jan 2010 02:47 On Fri, 15 Jan 2010 00:24:13 -0500, Paul <nospam(a)needed.com> wrote: Thanks again for such a detailed reply. There is a lot to absorb in your post, but let me make a 3-part reply to these 3 parts. >If it was an 80%+ efficient PSU, I might understand the fan going >off, but at 70% efficient, it seems a little less likely. What got me is that the breeze was noticeable the first time I turned the computer on with the new power supply, but not at all the last three times. I keep forgetting to check the breeze when I first start it now, but I will. >The other question is, what is the idling power of a computer with >an Athlon 800 in it. I don't know the answer to that. Athlon processors >don't have Cool N' Quiet, but they do have Halt and some kind of Bus >Disconnect ("Stop Grant"?), which are lower power states. So there is >some opportunity for power saving, but perhaps not as great as more >modern processors. My last two processors draw about 12W at idle. And >with that low a power draw for the processor, I suppose a fan could >switch off on the PSU. It seems no matter how much I think I've told a complete story, I never do in the first post: The machine wasn't idling but doing some things when there was no detectable breeze. (I'll admit I couldn't see the fan, but if it was running, it was very slow.) The computer wasn't idling >The fan in the PSU, can only be monitored if the power supply has a >two wire cable with a three hole connector on the end. That allows >the fan inside the PSU to be monitored, when the cable is connected >to a monitored fan header on the motherboard. Well I don't have a two-wire cable with a 3 hole connector. Nothing like that. This probably accounts for why the "Power fan" was listed as "Not monitored" in the Asus Probe screen. And at first I thought that it wasn't monitored because of that. But when I found no breeze, I guess I started to panic a bit.. I put a checkmark for the Power fan, and immediately the warning beep started and the fan speed showed 0 rpm. So that really made me concerned, but now I realize I was right in the first place, that the fan wasn't monitored because ther was no way to monitor it, and checking the box for that fan could only be misleading. It said 0 because it had no info. But the other thing that worried me is that the CPU temperature was rising, and when I went to rebooted to win98, it acted strangely, as it sometimes does. The first time it just stopped in the 5 second countdown, when I have a choice between safe start, regular start, etc. It jjust stopped! Also I have a gig of RAM but every 6 or 9 months, the regular memory test only counts off 400 meg, or today 100 Meg. Then I do a hard reset and it counts off less, about 1/3 as much each time as the previous time, once getting all the way down, in about 7 steps, to 2000K instead of 1 million K. Oh, and when I press Reset the tone that it makes early in startup, instead of one or two seconds, lasts 5 seconds and is much much louder, and today it lasted 10 seconds and wouldn't stop until I turned the computer off. Then when I turn it on it goes to the CMOS screen, which I don't change and I restart and it starts. Because letting it rest seems to help, today I figured the computer was too hot, although it started at 130 or 140 andt was only up to 165 F, I think, at the CPU, well under the value that Asus Probe calls dangerous. I also imagined I smelled something, like two days ago when the PSU had actually failed. I realize now there is little if any relationship to the temp of the power supply and the temp of the CPU. But all these strange things together made me turn off the computer and go to the win2000 one, which fwiw is still not fully set up. Tomorrow it will be fully cold, and I'll check the breeze at the start, and watch the temp more closely before concluding it's getting to hot. Thanks again.
From: Paul on 15 Jan 2010 03:44 Bob wrote: > On Fri, 15 Jan 2010 00:24:13 -0500, Paul <nospam(a)needed.com> wrote: > > Thanks again for such a detailed reply. > > There is a lot to absorb in your post, but let me make a 3-part reply > to these 3 parts. > >> If it was an 80%+ efficient PSU, I might understand the fan going >> off, but at 70% efficient, it seems a little less likely. > > What got me is that the breeze was noticeable the first time I turned > the computer on with the new power supply, but not at all the last > three times. I keep forgetting to check the breeze when I first start > it now, but I will. > >> The other question is, what is the idling power of a computer with >> an Athlon 800 in it. I don't know the answer to that. Athlon processors >> don't have Cool N' Quiet, but they do have Halt and some kind of Bus >> Disconnect ("Stop Grant"?), which are lower power states. So there is >> some opportunity for power saving, but perhaps not as great as more >> modern processors. My last two processors draw about 12W at idle. And >> with that low a power draw for the processor, I suppose a fan could >> switch off on the PSU. > > It seems no matter how much I think I've told a complete story, I > never do in the first post: The machine wasn't idling but doing some > things when there was no detectable breeze. (I'll admit I couldn't > see the fan, but if it was running, it was very slow.) > The computer wasn't idling > >> The fan in the PSU, can only be monitored if the power supply has a >> two wire cable with a three hole connector on the end. That allows >> the fan inside the PSU to be monitored, when the cable is connected >> to a monitored fan header on the motherboard. > > Well I don't have a two-wire cable with a 3 hole connector. Nothing > like that. This probably accounts for why the "Power fan" was listed > as "Not monitored" in the Asus Probe screen. And at first I thought > that it wasn't monitored because of that. But when I found no breeze, > I guess I started to panic a bit.. I put a checkmark for the Power > fan, and immediately the warning beep started and the fan speed showed > 0 rpm. So that really made me concerned, but now I realize I was > right in the first place, that the fan wasn't monitored because ther > was no way to monitor it, and checking the box for that fan could only > be misleading. It said 0 because it had no info. > > But the other thing that worried me is that the CPU temperature was > rising, and when I went to rebooted to win98, it acted strangely, as > it sometimes does. The first time it just stopped in the 5 second > countdown, when I have a choice between safe start, regular start, > etc. It jjust stopped! Also I have a gig of RAM but every 6 or 9 > months, the regular memory test only counts off 400 meg, or today 100 > Meg. Then I do a hard reset and it counts off less, about 1/3 as much > each time as the previous time, once getting all the way down, in > about 7 steps, to 2000K instead of 1 million K. Oh, and when I > press Reset the tone that it makes early in startup, instead of one or > two seconds, lasts 5 seconds and is much much louder, and today it > lasted 10 seconds and wouldn't stop until I turned the computer off. > > Then when I turn it on it goes to the CMOS screen, which I don't > change and I restart and it starts. Because letting it rest seems to > help, today I figured the computer was too hot, although it started at > 130 or 140 andt was only up to 165 F, I think, at the CPU, well under > the value that Asus Probe calls dangerous. > > I also imagined I smelled something, like two days ago when the PSU > had actually failed. > > I realize now there is little if any relationship to the temp of the > power supply and the temp of the CPU. > > But all these strange things together made me turn off the computer > and go to the win2000 one, which fwiw is still not fully set up. > > Tomorrow it will be fully cold, and I'll check the breeze at the > start, and watch the temp more closely before concluding it's getting > to hot. > > Thanks again. I would aim to keep the Athlon below 65C (149F), for stability. The Athlon can run too hot because 1) Either the multiplier (on an unlocked processor) was set too high, or the bus frequency was cranked up. For example, my AthlonXP runs at 200x11, where 200MHz is the bus frequency and 11 is the multiplier. In CPUZ, I'd see 2200MHz as my core frequency. I can set the multiplier in the BIOS, to lower values, which makes the PC slower and makes the processor run cooler. I also have the option to reduce the input clock, but that slows down the front side bus (FSB). A 200MHz input clock gives a FSB400 rate. 400 million times a second, the processor can transfer 64 data bits, and that is 3200MB/sec of data (enough to keep PC3200 RAM busy). That is the best that the S462 family can do. The slowest Athlon, transfers at half that rate, or 1600MB/sec, and uses FSB200. You should know the proper multiplier and input clock rate, so you can verify the results later with CPUZ. http://www.cpuid.com/cpuz.php (32 bit no install version) (A screenshot, to show what info CPUZ can show you.) http://img338.imageshack.us/img338/3535/cpuz616.jpg 2) A user can crank up Vcore in the BIOS, which makes the processor hot. According to this, your Athlon 800 might normally use 1.75V for Vcore. (The motherboard Vcore circuit is what creates the 1.75V, derived from the 5V rail of your power supply.) Now, a welcome sign here, is the table lists your processor as 40W max, so it isn't as hot as the processor I had. That should make it easier on the power supply (less excuse for a burning smell). http://web.archive.org/web/20030325111222/http://www.qdi.nl/support/CPUQDISocketA.htm 3) Improper cooling. If the CPU die doesn't have thermal paste on it, to displace any air gap between heatsink and CPU, that can allow the processor to get hot, without the heatsink dissipating the heat. The CPU silicon die has to be in good contact with the heatsink, and this is especially important with the Athlon. Also, you have to take great care to not chip the edges of the bare die. Some processors have rubber bumpers glued to them, to help protect the silicon die. In other cases, a "shim" can be used for the same purpose. The idea is, to prevent the heatsink from rocking from side to side, when you're setting it in place. if it can't rock, it won't crack the edges of the silicon die. I'm beginning to wonder, if that burning smell isn't your new 275W power supply running really hot, because the fan has failed ? ******* It sounds like the operating frequency of your hardware is wrong for some reason. But proving something like that is happening, is pretty tough. Years ago, you could get devices like this "RD2", and could measure the PCI bus frequency with it. That might be a way to check one of the fundamental frequencies on the PC (i.e. without buying a more expensive frequency counter to do it). But I don't think they sell these any more. They were discontinued. http://web.archive.org/web/20050404105542/http://www.ioss.com.tw/web/English/RD2PCGeiger.html If you can get the computer booted into Windows, you can try CPUZ, and that is the quickest way to see if some frequency is not correct. My guess is, your Athlon 800 should be 100 x 8, use FSB200 for the front side bus, and run from a Vcore value of 1.75 volts. The multiplier (8x)and input frequency (100) should also be visible in one of the A7M266 BIOS screens. I can see such a screen in the PDF manual. I notice in a picture of the motherboard, there is a block (3x4 pins) for VID in the lower left corner of the motherboard. That would be a way of manually controlling Vcore. "Jumper Free Mode" on page 19 of the PDF manual, shows how to use that. The processor picks the voltage, if all the jumpers are in columns 3 and 4. If you choose to set the voltage manually, the table on page 24 shows how to set the voltage. You only use as much voltage as is needed to keep the processor stable. The default for your processor is 1.75V. If the previous owner of the board, set the jumper block manually, it is up to you to verify how it has been set up. It will either be in JumperFree mode (intended for BIOS control), or if in Jumper mode, you can use the jumper block to set Vcore to whatever value you want. If the previous owner was overclocking, then the input clock might have been set to 133MHz, instead of 100MHz. And if you think this is complicated, then don't ever buy a modern motherboard :-) Some of them are like flying the space shuttle. http://www51.honeywell.com/aero/common/images/Cockpit_Displays_in_the_Atlantis_Space_Shuttle_Large.jpg Paul
From: mike on 15 Jan 2010 06:05 Bob wrote: > I just installed a new ATX Power Supply, 275 watts, model Silencer by > PC Power and Cooling, Inc. It's several years old but never used. > > The fan was blowing yesterday and sometime in the 8 hours the computer > has been running, it stopped. > > (I turned it off and Im using another computer now. ) > > I'm running Asus Probe, which monitor fan speeds and temperatures. It > says the speed of the "power fan" is zero now. It's been below the > threshold speed since yesterday. > > Is it possible something in or on the mobo could cause the fan not to > run? Asus Proble? > > Did failure to connect it right stop the fan from working, even though > the computer is working? > > Did it just fail, and if I replace it the next one won't? > > Thanks for any help you can give > > > (The first fan failed because it was 8 years old and maybe because > it's a hostile enviorment wth a lot of dust.) > > I'm running win98SE and XP on the same box and the symptoms are the > same in each. > > Fans rarely fail electrically. I've never seen one fail. What happens is the bearings seize. If the fan was running and not making noise, it's probably not seized 8 hours later. But check it anyway. Unplug the computer and see if you can turn the fan. Compressed LOW PRESSURE air works. You can stick an insulated tool and touch the blade. INSULATED TOOL. NOT A METAL TOOL. AN INSULATED TOOL. NOT A METAL SCREWDRIVER WITH AN INSULATED HANDLE. A FULLY INSULATED COMPLETELY NON-CONDUCTIVE TOOL. PLASTIC TOOTHPIC OR STRAW WORKS. There's stuff just behind that fan that can electrocute you even if it's been off for hours, if the bleeder resistor has failed...as they sometimes do. If the blade turns easily, the fan is probably ok. Fan speed monitors often don't work on old computers. The hardware ain't there or is not recognized. A power supply with the name "Silencer" is likely to have some internal thermal control of the fan. Depending on the configuration of your case, and how many fans are in the system, the PS internal control may not be sensitive to internal CASE temperature.
From: UCLAN on 15 Jan 2010 15:31 mike wrote: > A power supply with the name "Silencer" is likely to have some internal > thermal control of the fan. The Silencer 275 had no such circuit - it just had a very quiet fan. In fact, the Silencer was the same PSU as the Turbo-Cool 300, but derated some and with a quiet fan. If you can't see the fan, best way to see if it's spinning is to hold a piece of tissue paper or a lit match behind the PSU exhaust and check for signs of air movement.
From: edfair on 15 Jan 2010 22:24
Likely that the fan failed. Most are constant running while power is applied. Most fan power leads are soldered into the PS board. No need to get into the guts to unsolder, cut the leads close to the fan to have working slack and either splice the leads for the replacement to the slack or use small wire nuts to join them. |