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From: Rod Speed on 1 Mar 2010 13:50
Dan C wrote:
> On Mon, 01 Mar 2010 19:51:31 +0530, ClueLess wrote:
>
>> Posted to comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.storage, 24hoursupport.helpdesk
>>
>> Hi Friends
>>
>> Here is a strange problem, when I connect my hard disk using the 80
>> wire cable my computer does not recognize it.
>>
>> It happened this way. I had to check another hard disk and so I
>> swapped the disks (IDE0) and found it was not recognized. Then I
>> connected the original hard disk and it was also not recognized. I
>> tried both the IDE0 and IDE1 channels with the same result. I tried
>> also other hard disks as well other 80 wire cables, still no go.
>>
>> Then I found an old 40 wire cable and when connected with this,
>> bingo, all the hard disks are recognized.
>>
>> No pins broken, no hardware damage. All the cablea are in good
>> condition. In fact the machine for years worked with only the 80 wire
>> cable.
>>
>> How does this happen? This is just a banana motherboard and the
>> problem is in the bios stage itself. (bios says "Not installed")
>>
>> If any of you can give me an explanation or a solution please do
>
> You'll have to format the hard drive(s) while using the 40-pin cable,
> and then the 80-pin cable will work.

That is just plain wrong.


From: Rod Speed on 1 Mar 2010 13:57
ClueLess wrote:

> Here is a strange problem, when I connect my hard disk using the 80
> wire cable my computer does not recognize it.
>
> It happened this way. I had to check another hard disk and so I
> swapped the disks (IDE0) and found it was not recognized. Then I
> connected the original hard disk and it was also not recognized. I
> tried both the IDE0 and IDE1 channels with the same result. I tried
> also other hard disks as well other 80 wire cables, still no go.
>
> Then I found an old 40 wire cable and when connected with this, bingo,
> all the hard disks are recognized.

> No pins broken, no hardware damage. All the cablea are in good
> condition. In fact the machine for years worked with only the 80 wire cable.

You can however get invisible damage wth ribbon cables.

The metal prongs that bite into the ribbon can get bent during manufacture
and the act of removing a drive and plugging in a different one can make the
cable faulty. So try a new 80 wire cable because that is mostly likely the problem.

> How does this happen?

See above.

> This is just a banana motherboard and the problem
> is in the bios stage itself. (bios says "Not installed")

> If any of you can give me an explanation or a solution please do


From: Rod Speed on 1 Mar 2010 13:54
Brian Cryer wrote:
> "ClueLess" <clueless(a)wilderness.org.invalid> wrote in message
> news:j0ino5p7hrvcjpd357c0o7338tqtp5ta5n(a)4ax.com...
>> Posted to comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.storage, 24hoursupport.helpdesk
>>
>> Hi Friends
>>
>> Here is a strange problem, when I connect my hard disk using the 80
>> wire cable my computer does not recognize it.
>>
>> It happened this way. I had to check another hard disk and so I
>> swapped the disks (IDE0) and found it was not recognized. Then I
>> connected the original hard disk and it was also not recognized. I
>> tried both the IDE0 and IDE1 channels with the same result. I tried
>> also other hard disks as well other 80 wire cables, still no go.
>>
>> Then I found an old 40 wire cable and when connected with this,
>> bingo, all the hard disks are recognized.
>>
>> No pins broken, no hardware damage. All the cablea are in good
>> condition. In fact the machine for years worked with only the 80 wire
>> cable.
>>
>> How does this happen? This is just a banana motherboard and the
>> problem is in the bios stage itself. (bios says "Not installed")
>>
>> If any of you can give me an explanation or a solution please do
>
> The 40 wire cable was used by older IDE drives. The 80 wire cable was
> introduced with the advent of Ultra DMA/66, the extra wires serving to
> reduce noise. Full story at
> http://everything.explained.at/AT_Attachment/

> As I recall, with the 40 wire cable you needed to use the cable
> select on the drive to indicate whether the drive was a slave or
> master, but with the 80 wire cable it depended on which of the two
> connectors on the cable it was plugged into.

It should still show up fine on the 80 wire cable.

> If the drive isn't recognised with the 80 wire cable then I'd suspect
> either the cable or the IDE logic on the motherboard. So whilst you
> might think the cable is fine I'd still try a different cable.

Particularly as it isnt hard to get a cable that has the metal
prongs that bite into the ribbon invisibly bent over and just
the act of plugging in the drive can make the fault show up etc.

> If you can't find anything wrong with it connected via your old 40
> wire cable, then stick with that. I know that transfer rates will be
> slower, but probably not so you'd notice.

Makes more sense to work out why it no longer works.


From: Rod Speed on 1 Mar 2010 13:59
richard wrote:
> On Mon, 01 Mar 2010 19:51:31 +0530, ClueLess wrote:
>
>> Posted to comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.storage, 24hoursupport.helpdesk
>>
>> Hi Friends
>>
>> Here is a strange problem, when I connect my hard disk using the 80
>> wire cable my computer does not recognize it.
>>
>> It happened this way. I had to check another hard disk and so I
>> swapped the disks (IDE0) and found it was not recognized. Then I
>> connected the original hard disk and it was also not recognized. I
>> tried both the IDE0 and IDE1 channels with the same result. I tried
>> also other hard disks as well other 80 wire cables, still no go.
>>
>> Then I found an old 40 wire cable and when connected with this,
>> bingo, all the hard disks are recognized.
>>
>> No pins broken, no hardware damage. All the cablea are in good
>> condition. In fact the machine for years worked with only the 80 wire
>> cable.
>>
>> How does this happen? This is just a banana motherboard and the
>> problem is in the bios stage itself. (bios says "Not installed")
>>
>> If any of you can give me an explanation or a solution please do
>
> I'm amazed that you could even get the 40 wire cable to connect to
> the same connector as the 80 wire. They're generally designed so that
> you CAN'T do that.

Thats just plain wrong.

> Was the first drive you checked properly initialized and formatted per
> maniufacturer's instructions with the provided disk? That's generally
> why it isn't recognized.

Thats wrong too with the bios seeing the drive.

> Did the other drives work elswhere?

> In the device manager, do you get any errors?

It isnt even seen by the bios.


From: Rod Speed on 1 Mar 2010 14:03
VanguardLH wrote:
> ClueLess wrote:
>
>> Posted to comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.storage, 24hoursupport.helpdesk
>>
>> Hi Friends
>>
>> Here is a strange problem, when I connect my hard disk using the 80
>> wire cable my computer does not recognize it.
>>
>> It happened this way. I had to check another hard disk and so I
>> swapped the disks (IDE0) and found it was not recognized. Then I
>> connected the original hard disk and it was also not recognized. I
>> tried both the IDE0 and IDE1 channels with the same result. I tried
>> also other hard disks as well other 80 wire cables, still no go.
>>
>> Then I found an old 40 wire cable and when connected with this,
>> bingo, all the hard disks are recognized.
>>
>> No pins broken, no hardware damage. All the cablea are in good
>> condition. In fact the machine for years worked with only the 80 wire
>> cable.
>>
>> How does this happen? This is just a banana motherboard and the
>> problem is in the bios stage itself. (bios says "Not installed")
>>
>> If any of you can give me an explanation or a solution please do

> Signalling wise, there is no difference between a 40- and 80-wire IDE cable.

Wrong. 80 wire cables are usually cable select cables, 40 wire cables usually are not.

> Only 40 signal wires are used in both. The 80-wire ribbon
> cable has a ground wire between each signal wire to reduce cross-talk
> and noise. It is still a 40-pin connector to a 40-pin connector setup.

But isnt identical on the cable select question.

> There are some cables that are physically altered (by snipping out a
> very short length of one signal wire, or not connecting that signal
> to the connector pin, or with a missing connector pin) to make them
> "cable select" cables. Rather than you configuring your drives as
> master and slave, you configure both to "cable select" and the lack
> of the signal from controller to one of the drives makes it the slave.
> Unless you using a meter to test each pin of the 40-pin
> connector at the mobo end to each matching pin in the other 40-pin
> connectors to see if all have continuity or if one is open, just test
> using a different 80-wire, 40-pin IDE cable.

That doesnt explain why the original drive isnt seen anymore.

> It's also possible that the 80-wire, 40-pin cable is damaged so one
> of its signal lines is disconnected. Just because it worked for
> years doesn't mean it was a perfect cable. The connector's pins
> aren't soldered to the wires. The ends of the connector's pins are
> simply split to scissor through the insulation to make contact with
> the wired by squeesing the two tangs against the wire. It's a
> mechanical connection. This is how, for example, a Scotchlock
> splicing connector works. It isn't the most secure or durable
> connection. Also, you pulling on the ribbon cable to remove the
> cable can cause damage, especially if you wiggle from side to side to
> waddle the connector off the header. That's why the better cables
> come with a nylon or plastic pull tab that is part of the connector
> assembly and you pull on that rather than the ribbon cable.

> You never mentioned if the connectors were polarized. If the
> connector has no tang (to slide into a matching notch in the shroud
> around the header pins) or doesn't use a blank pin 20 (a solid spot
> where pin 20 would be but with no hole for a pin to slide into), or
> the shroud around the headers is depolarized by having notches on
> both sides, or the shroud is missing, it's possible you attached the
> connector upside down. It's also possible you didn't slide the
> connector all the way onto the header pins. It's also possible one
> of the female pins inside the connector is loose and didn't make good
> contact. Did you ever try a different 80-wire, 40-pin cable?


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