Processes' memory
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From: EricP on 28 Jan 2010 12:41 nmm1(a)cam.ac.uk wrote: > In article <Vr6dnYyTD7AcKsLWnZ2dnUVZ_qWdnZ2d(a)earthlink.com>, > Mike <mike(a)mike.net> wrote: >> In 1984 IBM had a PC/370 but decided it >> 370 instruction set chip. In 1984 IBM had a PC/370 but decided it >> would eat mainframe revenue and limited software licenses to machines >> connected to mainframes thus killing their attraction. > > Did they? Despite being VERY close to IBM, I never tracked that down, > and think that it was an urban myth. Yes, there was a design, and it > may even have reached silicon, but (as far as I know) it never reached > the stage of actually running a full-blown System/370 operating system, > even in-house. > I can't say about it running System/370 but it was out of the lab, though perhaps not an "announced product", because IPSA had their APL up and running on PC/370 in the early 1980's. I wasn't involved so can't provide details of the port. Eric
From: Anne & Lynn Wheeler on 28 Jan 2010 13:58 EricP <ThatWouldBeTelling(a)thevillage.com> writes: > I can't say about it running System/370 but it was out of > the lab, though perhaps not an "announced product", because > IPSA had their APL up and running on PC/370 in the early 1980's. > I wasn't involved so can't provide details of the port. the ibm 5100 PC ... 1975 precusor to 5150 pc ... did 370 emulation for running port of apl\360. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IBM_5100 above mentions 5100 pc use a simplified version of 370 apl.sv the (cambridge) science center had originally ported apl\360 to (cp67/)cms for cms\apl. misc. past posts mentioning science center http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/subtopic.html#545tech part of the issue was that apl\360 swapped whole, very small (16kbytes, possibly 32kbytes). part of moving apl\360 to relatively large virtual memory environment ... was redoing apl\360 storage allocation & garbage collection (which tended to very quickly touch every possible address in the workspace, for small workspaces that were completely swapped in/out every time ... it wasn't an issue ... but resulted in severe page thrashing in much larger virtual memory workspaces). cms\apl also introduced semantics to directly invoke all sorts of cms system services (file read/write, etc); this brought down the wrath of the apl language purists. later the palo alto science center morphed this into (vm370/cms) apl\cms (and as per above PASC also responsible for the 5100) ... along with adding the 370/145 apl microcode performance assist (for some class of apl applications, they would run as fast on 145 with microcode assists as on 370/168 ... nearly factor of ten times speed up). one of the largest use of cms\apl ... and then apl\cms was across the back parking lot from the palo alto science center (building that is next door to current facebook offices ... but now has different occupant). misc. past posts mentioning the internal (virtual machine base, online, sales&marketing support) HONE system http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/subtopic.html#hone the various US HONE datacenters were consolidated there in the mid-70s .... however, clones of the US HONE system were sprouted up all over the rest of world ... in part motivated by eventual requirement that mainframe orders had to be (pre-)processed by various HONE/APL applications. eventually apl/sv was produced to replace apl\cms (and also ran on MVS) that used "shared variable" paradigm for accessing system services (eliminating the "abominations" introduced in cms\apl). -- 42yrs virtualization experience (since Jan68), online at home since Mar1970
From: EricP on 28 Jan 2010 14:50 Anne & Lynn Wheeler wrote: > EricP <ThatWouldBeTelling(a)thevillage.com> writes: >> I can't say about it running System/370 but it was out of >> the lab, though perhaps not an "announced product", because >> IPSA had their APL up and running on PC/370 in the early 1980's. >> I wasn't involved so can't provide details of the port. > > the ibm 5100 PC ... 1975 precusor to 5150 pc ... did 370 emulation for > running port of apl\360. > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IBM_5100 > > above mentions 5100 pc use a simplified version of 370 apl.sv I believe it was called the XT/370 - a plug in card for the PC/XT with the pair of re-microcoded 68000's. It was a product in 1983. Eric
From: "Andy "Krazy" Glew" on 28 Jan 2010 20:16 Anne & Lynn Wheeler wrote > eventually apl/sv was produced to replace apl\cms (and also ran on MVS) > that used "shared variable" paradigm for accessing system services > (eliminating the "abominations" introduced in cms\apl). Lynn: can you expand on this? "Shared Variable" sounds like it is relevant to parallelism or concurrency; system services sounds like syscalls. Abominations sounds bad, but makes me curious. I assume "ape" = A Programming Language. Iverson? Vectors? +/array?
From: Anne & Lynn Wheeler on 28 Jan 2010 23:43
On 01/28/10 20:16, Andy "Krazy" Glew wrote: > Lynn: can you expand on this? "Shared Variable" sounds like it is > relevant to parallelism or concurrency; system services sounds like > syscalls. Abominations sounds bad, but makes me curious. > > I assume "ape" = A Programming Language. Iverson? Vectors? +/array? note ... i see the above in email and in google ... but it hasn't shown up at my usenet server ... there seems to be some connectivity problem with usenet "gateways" .... ibm-main mailing list usenet gateway recently has had several things go totally missing; ... in any case. re: http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2010c.html#28 Processes' memory say little like peek/poke with shared memory ... but process could either be an asynchronous operation or a synchronous system services (apl masking kernel call behind shared variable). http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/APL_Shared_Variables a discussion of shared variable here ... avoiding mentioning the cms\apl abomination http://www.jsoftware.com/papers/APLDesign.htm there was cambridge science center that did virtual machines, cms, cms\apl, gml, etc. the phili science center had falkoff, iverson, and apl\360 the palo alto science center does 5100, apl\cms and the 370/145 apl microcode assist ..... cms\apl then shows up in large scale applications in the (initially cp67-based) internal HONE system. a lot of apl was used for lots of things that are done in spreadsheets today the cambridge science center did a little external time-sharing service .... for other internal locations ... as well as some number of non-employees ... students & others from various institutions of higher learning in the boston area. a big early use of cms\apl on the cambridge science center cp67 system .... was the corporate hdqtrs business planning people who loaded the most sensitive and most valuable corporate resource on the cambridge system (all the customer information) and did cms\apl business modeling. Big innovation from cms\apl was large enuf workspace size and the ability to do file i/o involving large amounts of data ... for real world applications. the cambridge cp67 had to had to have sufficient security that the most valuable of corporate assets didn't leak out to unauthorized & non-employee users. -- 42yrs virtualization experience (since Jan68), online at home since Mar1970 |