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From: Stephan Schulz on 27 Apr 2010 06:57
Hi!

I've been using Python for a long while (certainly since it was 1.X),
and I've taught some aspects of it in my lectures. I'm now thinking of
preparing a new lecture where some of the theoretical concepts will be
illustrated by implementations of e.g. automata and DPLL provers,
preferably in Python.

I'm so far only familiar with Python 2.X. Is Python 3 sucessful enough
to make a switch worthwhile now? Or will students still face an
infrastructure with mostly Python 2.X deployed in, say, 2 years time,
when they graduate?

Bye,

Stephan

--
-------------------------- It can be done! ---------------------------------
Please email me as schulz(a)eprover.org (Stephan Schulz)
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: Stefan Behnel on 27 Apr 2010 07:33
Stephan Schulz, 27.04.2010 12:57:
> I've been using Python for a long while (certainly since it was 1.X),
> and I've taught some aspects of it in my lectures. I'm now thinking of
> preparing a new lecture where some of the theoretical concepts will be
> illustrated by implementations of e.g. automata and DPLL provers,
> preferably in Python.
>
> I'm so far only familiar with Python 2.X. Is Python 3 sucessful enough
> to make a switch worthwhile now? Or will students still face an
> infrastructure with mostly Python 2.X deployed in, say, 2 years time,
> when they graduate?

Most likely, yes, although it will depend very much on the exact spot you
look at. In two years time, I'd expect that the mass of open-source
projects will have made the switch, many companies will have followed, but
many others will still be using Py2. It depends on the size of their code
base, the availability of truly required dependencies, the urge to keep
using a well supported and future proof runtime, and various non-technical
issues.

Anyway, if you intend to use Python for teaching, I'd consider it worth
teaching Py3 now, simply because it's a cleaner language that goes out of
your way another little bit more than Py2. It's also less outdated cruft to
talk about, e.g. old-style classes are gone, unicode issues are mostly gone
or at least easier to explain (and worth explaining when they occur). It's
just more fun to work with. :)

Just my two €-cents...

Stefan

From: Peter Otten on 27 Apr 2010 08:00
Stephan Schulz wrote:

> I've been using Python for a long while (certainly since it was 1.X),
> and I've taught some aspects of it in my lectures. I'm now thinking of
> preparing a new lecture where some of the theoretical concepts will be
> illustrated by implementations of e.g. automata and DPLL provers,
> preferably in Python.
>
> I'm so far only familiar with Python 2.X. Is Python 3 sucessful enough
> to make a switch worthwhile now? Or will students still face an
> infrastructure with mostly Python 2.X deployed in, say, 2 years time,
> when they graduate?

I think you can make the decision light-heartedly, based on the current
availability of libraries you'd like your students to use. The difficulty of
switching between 2.x and 3.x in whatever direction is likely several
magnitudes smaller than grokking the contents of your lecture.

That said, I expect 2.x to dominate for the next five rather than two years.

Peter
From: Roger Binns on 27 Apr 2010 12:47
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On 04/27/2010 03:57 AM, Stephan Schulz wrote:
> Is Python 3 sucessful enough to make a switch worthwhile now?

The language/interpreter is just fine. The biggest problem is 3rd party
modules. My own module (APSW) has been available since the early betas of
Python 3 and I make it available for Python 2.3 onwards.

I have a release every month or two, and so you can see adoption trends for
Windows users over time:

http://code.google.com/p/apsw/downloads/list?can=1&q=binary

Python 2.6 is by far the most popular, but 3.1 is picking up. It is
disturbing just many 2.3 users there still are though.

Roger
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From: John Nagle on 27 Apr 2010 22:57
Roger Binns wrote:
> On 04/27/2010 03:57 AM, Stephan Schulz wrote:
>> Is Python 3 sucessful enough to make a switch worthwhile now?
>
> The language/interpreter is just fine. The biggest problem is 3rd party
> modules.

Indeed. Python 3 is a good language, and the CPython interpreter
is in good shape, but many key modules aren't ready for prime time
under Python 3 yet.

For teaching purposes, I'd teach Python 3. Most Python 3 code
will run in 2.6/2.7, more or less.

I have a Python 3.1 installed for fun, but I can't actually
do much useful with it until the MySQLdb module fully supports it.

John Nagle
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