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From: James Gavan on 12 Jul 2010 19:12 Howard Brazee wrote: > On Sat, 10 Jul 2010 12:54:51 -0700 (PDT), Alistair > <alistair(a)ld50macca.demon.co.uk> wrote: > > >>The use of English and Spanish (I presume; No Habla Espanole) in this >>thread has made me wonder about the compilers used in non-English >>speaking countries: are they forced to use English or are there >>language options which allow the use of local languages? > > > I've read that the only place where non-English CoBOL compilers have > been available is France. I don't know if that is true or ever has > been true. > > Similarly, the only International Airport that has air traffic > controllers not speak English is Montreal. > > Well almost anything can happen in la belle province. What used to be a very staunch Catholic province, controlled by the clergy both morally and politically, is now fanatically secular. A Jesuit school just challenged the Quebec government through the courts and currently won. The government demanded that the particular school follow the Provincial Education department idea as to what teaching religion is about, one of those vanilla flavoured curriculum 'where everybody's religion gets a mention'. Needless to say, while the prime emphasis for the Jesuits is teaching catholicism, in the modern more 'open' world, they do make reference to other religions. Montreal air traffic - are you speaking from experience when you were a USAF flyboy ? I would have thought they could be taken to the cleaners ! I'm thinking of the Quebecois fanaticism about the French language being used, (I think they are the only 'country' that uses road sign posts painted 'ARRET' instead of 'STOP'). If they want to play the bi-lingual card under our Charter of Rights, then legally it follows an 'Anglo' could challenge them on not being bi-lingual and using Anglais in an Air Traffic tower. Perhaps a complaint, through channels, from a commerical pilot from les Etats-Unis ? As regards versions of the COBOL language. I might have it wrong but I think the only COBOL compilers you can get from them are in Japanese characters ? The company, Hitachi. I wonder is there a Japanese version of Fujitsu in Japan. (Long ago there was an intent that Unisys would pick up on Hitachi OO COBOL, on contract, but the idea although publicized in the Web came to naught). I kinda think that both India and China just might be clamouring for local versions ? Quite likely in India the emphasis is on English because they do a lot of outsourcing work contracted from N. America. China I would have thought, is more likely to be interested in the domestic market, and without any slight intended I would have thought Indian education, (those old Empire roots), would be superior to the Chinese version ? Bill's point about language translation. I checked on the VOCABULARY feature in Net Express before writing this. At this time it is limited; 'translations' are strictly to do with OO and you create a 'translation' copyfile per Class that is affected. I can't recall, but do remember Tim Josling, (the Oz COBOL compiler), complaining some ten years back about COBOL RESERVED words - at least some 600 I think. With not too much effort the OO approach above could become 'universal' with a Dictionary lookup when you run your compiler; would marginally slow down the compiler, but not too dramatically I would suggest. Once you've created a DLL or EXE it doesn't matter what the original language was. Here's an extract from the copyfile GUI.if. It's a bit confusing, because this is their original style with the word 'object' popping up all over the place. I've commented out what is not needed and this is an ABSTRACT class with only FACTORY methods - no Object/Instance methods :- $set hidemessage(731) class-id. guibase is external. object section. <---- comment out class-control. Dependent is class "dependnt" guibase is class "guibase". object. <---- comment out FACTORY. <---- comment IN method-id. "setEvent". linkage section. 01 lnkeventindex pic s9(9) comp-5. 01 lnkeventhandler usage object reference. procedure division using lnkeventindex lnkeventhandler *> vocabulary INVOKED as == setEvent [using] ([<self>] , <lnkeventindex> , <lnkeventhandler> ) ==. end method "setEvent". method-id. "translateEvent". linkage section. 01 lnkeventindex pic s9(9) comp-5. 01 lnkTranslatedEvent pic s9(9) comp-5. 01 lnkReceiver usage object reference. 01 lnkmethodName usage object reference. procedure division using lnkeventindex lnkReceiver lnkTranslatedEvent *> vocabulary INVOKED as == map event <lnkeventindex> upon <self> to logical event <lnkTranslatedEvent> upon <lnkReceiver> ==. end method "translateEvent". method-id. "setEventTo". linkage section. 01 lnkeventindex pic s9(9) comp-5. 01 lnkReceiver usage object reference. 01 lnkmethodName pic x. 01 lnkParam1 pic x(4). 01 lnkParam2 pic x(4). procedure division using lnkeventindex lnkReceiver lnkMethodName lnkParam1 lnkParam2 *> vocabulary INVOKED as == map event <lnkeventindex> upon <self> to method <lnkMethodName> upon <lnkReceiver> [<lnkParam1>] [<lnkParam2>] ==. end method "setEventTo". END FACTORY. <----- comment IN end object. <----- comment OUT *> OBJECT. <--- these two commented lines are here *> END OBJECT. <---- to show there are no INSTANCE methods end class guibase. ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- Without thinking about it, I've used above to invoke GUIs, instead of the normal context. Jimmy, Calgary AB
From: Pete Dashwood on 12 Jul 2010 19:19 Howard Brazee wrote: > On Sat, 10 Jul 2010 12:54:51 -0700 (PDT), Alistair > <alistair(a)ld50macca.demon.co.uk> wrote: > >> The use of English and Spanish (I presume; No Habla Espanole) in this >> thread has made me wonder about the compilers used in non-English >> speaking countries: are they forced to use English or are there >> language options which allow the use of local languages? > > I've read that the only place where non-English CoBOL compilers have > been available is France. I don't know if that is true or ever has > been true. > > Similarly, the only International Airport that has air traffic > controllers not speak English is Montreal. I believe you because I know you are ex USAF and up on these things, Howard. (And I have respect for your knowledge and integrity, from observing your posts here over years.) But, as a private pilot, I find that frightening and I would have thought it is also illegal. There are many airports around the world where controllers are multilingual, but English HAS to be the first language used, as I understand it. I understood there were international agreements about this. Have they been revoked for Montreal? Are you absolutely certain they do "not speak English"? Pete. -- "I used to write COBOL...now I can do anything."
From: Richard on 13 Jul 2010 02:56 On Jul 13, 11:19 am, "Pete Dashwood" <dashw...(a)removethis.enternet.co.nz> wrote: > Howard Brazee wrote: > > On Sat, 10 Jul 2010 12:54:51 -0700 (PDT), Alistair > > <alist...(a)ld50macca.demon.co.uk> wrote: > > >> The use of English and Spanish (I presume; No Habla Espanole) in this > >> thread has made me wonder about the compilers used in non-English > >> speaking countries: are they forced to use English or are there > >> language options which allow the use of local languages? > > > I've read that the only place where non-English CoBOL compilers have > > been available is France. I don't know if that is true or ever has > > been true. > > > Similarly, the only International Airport that has air traffic > > controllers not speak English is Montreal. > > I believe you because I know you are ex USAF and up on these things, Howard. > (And I have respect for your knowledge and integrity, from observing your > posts here over years.) But, as a private pilot, I find that frightening and > I would have thought it is also illegal. There are many airports around the > world where controllers are multilingual, but English HAS to be the first > language used, as I understand it. I understood there were international > agreements about this. Have they been revoked for Montreal? > > Are you absolutely certain they do "not speak English"? > > Pete. > -- > "I used to write COBOL...now I can do anything." A quick google turns up: """I'm a french controller so it will be easy to answer your question: for now there is no possibility to listen to live atc from France but i don't think it's illegal.Perhaps in a close future it will be possible. About the langage used by us with the pilots: it's french or english.In fact a controller speaks at the same time in english to international pilots and in french with pilots of Air France...that causes in fact some problems of comprehension because pilots don't understand all that the controller says... so there is a project (but it's just a project) which recommends to use only english langage: but it will not happen before about 10 years I think...""" """Good day. I do listen to Montreal ACC in french and english, depending on the pilot. It's fun hearing the weather and ATC instructions in french. It's like trying a different flavor.""" So, apparently, Montreal does speak English as well as French, and so does French ATC.
From: Anonymous on 13 Jul 2010 08:41 In article <PjN_n.4554$Bh2.1835(a)newsfe04.iad>, James Gavan <jgavan(a)shaw.ca> wrote: [snip] >A Jesuit school just >challenged the Quebec government through the courts and currently won. And a tired, sad sigh went up, and throughout the land was heard the world-weary plaint 'When, *when* will folks realise that You Just Don't Mess With the Jesuits?' From <http://groups.google.com/group/comp.lang.cobol/msg/129e29661efb91d3?dmode=source> --begin quoted text: (Note - I have nothing but respect for the Jesuit tradition of scholarship... and nothing but awe and fear at the ruthless tendencies demonstrated historically by these 'soldiers of Christ'. --end quoted text DD
From: Howard Brazee on 13 Jul 2010 10:30
On Mon, 12 Jul 2010 17:12:45 -0600, James Gavan <jgavan(a)shaw.ca> wrote: >> Similarly, the only International Airport that has air traffic >> controllers not speak English is Montreal. >> >> >Well almost anything can happen in la belle province. What used to be a >very staunch Catholic province, controlled by the clergy both morally >and politically, is now fanatically secular. A Jesuit school just >challenged the Quebec government through the courts and currently won. >The government demanded that the particular school follow the Provincial >Education department idea as to what teaching religion is about, one of >those vanilla flavoured curriculum 'where everybody's religion gets a >mention'. Needless to say, while the prime emphasis for the Jesuits is >teaching catholicism, in the modern more 'open' world, they do make >reference to other religions. Interesting problem - literate education requires knowledge of various religions, their stories, and their beliefs. And certainly in this small world, knowing the beliefs of people around the world matters. At least the handful of large, influential religions. (I don't care that a particular mountain is sacred to some aboriginal - let's treat the whole world as if it's sacred). >Montreal air traffic - are you speaking from experience when you were a >USAF flyboy ? Not directly (never flew into Canada at all), but via hearsay. And I haven't flown in decades. I have listened on the radio to a pilot talking with ATC - only to find out later that he didn't speak English enough to converse - only enough to do his job. .... >I kinda think that both India and China just might be clamouring for >local versions ? Quite likely in India the emphasis is on English >because they do a lot of outsourcing work contracted from N. America. >China I would have thought, is more likely to be interested in the >domestic market, and without any slight intended I would have thought >Indian education, (those old Empire roots), would be superior to the >Chinese version ? Also, English is an official language of India. It is the language that virtually all Indian businesses larger than family size must be able to converse in. But to a lesser extent, it is the lingua franca of the world. If you can do business in English, you can do business around the world. -- "In no part of the constitution is more wisdom to be found, than in the clause which confides the question of war or peace to the legislature, and not to the executive department." - James Madison |