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From: Ron Garret on 9 Dec 2009 01:50 In article <4b1f0e8f$0$4982$607ed4bc(a)cv.net>, Kenneth Tilton <kentilton(a)gmail.com> wrote: > OK, now it's my turn. > > Raffael Cavallaro wrote: > > On 2009-12-06 07:54:13 -0500, Kenneth Tilton <kentilton(a)gmail.com> said: > > > >> The more you thrash about trying to find some grapes the sillier you > >> look. > > > > Only in your head does your failure to understand a perfectly simple > > metaphor make someone else look silly. > > Look, you used it wrong, get over it. My joke about your English was > just a joke and you have now magnified your ignorance wonderfully. Your > mad search for grapes gone sour was fun, though. > > > Your attempted to misdirect > > readers from your jealous spite of Pascal C. is weak. > > And I hope you know sour grapes is not about jealousy. Of course sour grapes is about jealousy: http://www.google.com/dictionary?aq=f&langpair=en%7Cen&hl=en&q=jealousy "Jealousy is the feeling of anger or BITTERNESS which someone has when they wish that they could have the qualities or possessions that another person has." The first synonym listed is "envy". http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sour_grapes "Sour grapes is an expression originating from the Aesop Fable The Fox and the Grapes. It always refers to an unattainable goal and human reaction to it. It can mean to deny desire for the unattainable item. More often, it refers to the nature of humans to rationalize why they wouldn't want it anyway. The phrase has come to be synonymous with BITTERNESS in most modern contexts." (Emphasis added.) You must not have been paying attention in elementary school. That would explain a lot. rg
From: Kenneth Tilton on 9 Dec 2009 10:54 Ron Garret wrote: > In article <4b1f0e8f$0$4982$607ed4bc(a)cv.net>, > Kenneth Tilton <kentilton(a)gmail.com> wrote: > >> OK, now it's my turn. >> >> Raffael Cavallaro wrote: >>> On 2009-12-06 07:54:13 -0500, Kenneth Tilton <kentilton(a)gmail.com> said: >>> >>>> The more you thrash about trying to find some grapes the sillier you >>>> look. >>> Only in your head does your failure to understand a perfectly simple >>> metaphor make someone else look silly. >> Look, you used it wrong, get over it. My joke about your English was >> just a joke and you have now magnified your ignorance wonderfully. Your >> mad search for grapes gone sour was fun, though. >> >>> Your attempted to misdirect >>> readers from your jealous spite of Pascal C. is weak. >> And I hope you know sour grapes is not about jealousy. > > Of course sour grapes is about jealousy: Oh, goody! Let's try redefining the phrase!(But I thought you wanted to be a writer!)... > > http://www.google.com/dictionary?aq=f&langpair=en%7Cen&hl=en&q=jealousy > > "Jealousy is the feeling of anger or BITTERNESS which someone has when > they wish that they could have the qualities or possessions that another > person has." > > The first synonym listed is "envy". > > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sour_grapes > > "Sour grapes is an expression originating from the Aesop Fable The Fox > and the Grapes. It always refers to an unattainable goal and human > reaction to it. It can mean to deny desire for the unattainable item. > More often, it refers to the nature of humans to rationalize why they > wouldn't want it anyway. The phrase has come to be synonymous with > BITTERNESS in most modern contexts." > > (Emphasis added.) "The phrase HAS COME TO BE..." emphasis added. I think that is what I meant by "use it wrong" and "not know what it means". As in, some day "nuclear" will come to be pronounced "nucular". But language do change and I will cut Raffy some slack if we can find a dictionary that accepts that new, looser meaning. My OED still has just "resentful disparagement of something one cannot personnally acquire". Google offers wordnet with "disparagement of something that is unattainable" and the wiktionary as "A putting down or expression of disdain about something that one desires but cannot have." Over to you, oh grand twister of words! (You are the master.) > > You must not have been paying attention in elementary school. That > would explain a lot. You paid attention in school? Oh my. kt -- http://thelaughingstockatpngs.com/ http://www.facebook.com/pages/The-Laughingstock/115923141782?ref=nf
From: Kenneth Tilton on 9 Dec 2009 11:19 Kenneth Tilton wrote: > Ron Garret wrote: >> In article <4b1f0e8f$0$4982$607ed4bc(a)cv.net>, >> Kenneth Tilton <kentilton(a)gmail.com> wrote: >> >>> OK, now it's my turn. >>> >>> Raffael Cavallaro wrote: >>>> On 2009-12-06 07:54:13 -0500, Kenneth Tilton <kentilton(a)gmail.com> >>>> said: >>>> >>>>> The more you thrash about trying to find some grapes the sillier >>>>> you look. >>>> Only in your head does your failure to understand a perfectly simple >>>> metaphor make someone else look silly. >>> Look, you used it wrong, get over it. My joke about your English was >>> just a joke and you have now magnified your ignorance wonderfully. >>> Your mad search for grapes gone sour was fun, though. >>> >>>> Your attempted to misdirect readers from your jealous spite of >>>> Pascal C. is weak. >>> And I hope you know sour grapes is not about jealousy. >> >> Of course sour grapes is about jealousy: > > Oh, goody! Let's try redefining the phrase!(But I thought you wanted to > be a writer!)... > >> >> http://www.google.com/dictionary?aq=f&langpair=en%7Cen&hl=en&q=jealousy >> >> "Jealousy is the feeling of anger or BITTERNESS which someone has when >> they wish that they could have the qualities or possessions that >> another person has." >> >> The first synonym listed is "envy". >> >> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sour_grapes >> >> "Sour grapes is an expression originating from the Aesop Fable The Fox >> and the Grapes. It always refers to an unattainable goal and human >> reaction to it. It can mean to deny desire for the unattainable item. >> More often, it refers to the nature of humans to rationalize why they >> wouldn't want it anyway. The phrase has come to be synonymous with >> BITTERNESS in most modern contexts." >> >> (Emphasis added.) > > "The phrase HAS COME TO BE..." emphasis added. More emphasis added: "It ALWAYS refers to an unattainable goal and human reaction to it." But what do you think about this?: "It CAN mean to deny desire for the unattainable item." emphasis added. Only "can"? So I can fail to hit a Mariano Rivera cutter and fall over laughing and it would be "sour grapes"? Well, that is just plain wrong. Looks like your only source has sour grapes over accuracy. Try again? kt
From: Ron Garret on 9 Dec 2009 16:00 In article <4b1fc852$0$5016$607ed4bc(a)cv.net>, Kenneth Tilton <kentilton(a)gmail.com> wrote: > Ron Garret wrote: > > In article <4b1f0e8f$0$4982$607ed4bc(a)cv.net>, > > Kenneth Tilton <kentilton(a)gmail.com> wrote: > > > >> OK, now it's my turn. > >> > >> Raffael Cavallaro wrote: > >>> On 2009-12-06 07:54:13 -0500, Kenneth Tilton <kentilton(a)gmail.com> said: > >>> > >>>> The more you thrash about trying to find some grapes the sillier you > >>>> look. > >>> Only in your head does your failure to understand a perfectly simple > >>> metaphor make someone else look silly. > >> Look, you used it wrong, get over it. My joke about your English was > >> just a joke and you have now magnified your ignorance wonderfully. Your > >> mad search for grapes gone sour was fun, though. > >> > >>> Your attempted to misdirect > >>> readers from your jealous spite of Pascal C. is weak. > >> And I hope you know sour grapes is not about jealousy. > > > > Of course sour grapes is about jealousy: > > Oh, goody! Let's try redefining the phrase!(But I thought you wanted to > be a writer!)... > > > > > http://www.google.com/dictionary?aq=f&langpair=en%7Cen&hl=en&q=jealousy > > > > "Jealousy is the feeling of anger or BITTERNESS which someone has when > > they wish that they could have the qualities or possessions that another > > person has." > > > > The first synonym listed is "envy". > > > > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sour_grapes > > > > "Sour grapes is an expression originating from the Aesop Fable The Fox > > and the Grapes. It always refers to an unattainable goal and human > > reaction to it. It can mean to deny desire for the unattainable item. > > More often, it refers to the nature of humans to rationalize why they > > wouldn't want it anyway. The phrase has come to be synonymous with > > BITTERNESS in most modern contexts." > > > > (Emphasis added.) > > "The phrase HAS COME TO BE..." emphasis added. "... in most modern contexts." If you want to live in the past be my guest. But you have no grounds for saying that other people have got it wrong simply because they follow contemporary usage. (And you certainly don't have grounds to be snarky about it.) rg
From: Raffael Cavallaro on 9 Dec 2009 16:09
On 2009-12-09 10:54:58 -0500, Kenneth Tilton <kentilton(a)gmail.com> said: > My OED still has just "resentful disparagement of something one cannot > personnally acquire". And, for the 5th time now, that which you, ken tilton, cannot personally acquire is acceptance of *your* library, cells, as a publication quality, well documented, extension to clos. So when Pascal C. announces the release of a publication quality, well documented, extension to clos, you disparage it as a "stupid clos trick," i.e., being the author of an extension to clos is something not worth having. This is sour grapes - you disparage something you can't have - acceptance of your clos extension by the lisp community - as something not worth having. Then you go on to repeated attempts at deflection by irrelevantly criticising my use of the term "sour grapes." Anyting to distract from your obvious motive for attacking Pascal C. - his clos extension is publication quality, well documented, and will be well received, and your clos extension is not. -- Raffael Cavallaro |