ReSID and digitized audio
in [Commodore]
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From: Chrom_ on 13 Oct 2009 06:30 Hi Guys, I'm a great fan of the ReSIDfp engine and I use it with great pleasure under VICE (Linux compiled from sources by me). Yesterday I've noticed with big surprise that the digitized voices perform _very_ poorly with ReSIDfp. For instance, try to load Impossibile Mission 2 and listen to the intro ("Another visitor, stay a while, stay Forever") with ReSID and then listen again with ReSIDfp. The former sounds well, the second is almost muted. I've noticed the same problem with any digitized sound (try IK+ fighters voices and punch sound effect during combat for example). Being very puzzled, I tried to rebuild VICE 2.1, but the problem persisted. I tried on another PC and I got the same ugly output. I tried to switch between different SID models emulation, still using ReSIDfp, switching on and off the filters, but nothing helped. I didn't try the Windows version though. Please notice that if you wanna perform the same test, when you switch from a SID model to the other, check that ReSIDfp is still selected in the emulation engine menu, as it can switch back to ReSID that doesn't show the problem. I can provide audio samples if anyone wants. Is there any explanation for that? Any clue? Anybody experiencing the same on Win or Linux? Shall we open a bug on the VICE/ReSIDfp support board? Regards, Mauro_
From: alankila on 13 Oct 2009 09:17 On Oct 13, 1:30 pm, Chrom_ <maurogra...(a)gmail.com> wrote: > Hi Guys, > > I'm a great fan of the ReSIDfp engine and I use it with great pleasure > under VICE (Linux compiled from sources by me). > > Yesterday I've noticed with big surprise that the digitized voices > perform _very_ poorly with ReSIDfp. For instance, try to load > Impossibile Mission 2 and listen to the intro ("Another visitor, stay > a while, stay Forever") with ReSID and then listen again with ReSIDfp. > The former sounds well, the second is almost muted. I've noticed the > same problem with any digitized sound (try IK+ fighters voices and > punch sound effect during combat for example). > > Being very puzzled, I tried to rebuild VICE 2.1, but the problem > persisted. I tried on another PC and I got the same ugly output. I > tried to switch between different SID models emulation, still using > ReSIDfp, switching on and off the filters, but nothing helped. I > didn't try the Windows version though. Please notice that if you wanna > perform the same test, when you switch from a SID model to the other, > check that ReSIDfp is still selected in the emulation engine menu, as > it can switch back to ReSID that doesn't show the problem. Sounds like perhaps the DC offset of SID voices is too low for your tastes. I'll take a look: I remember I turned these down because the digis tended to drown the SID channels and there's some chip-to-chip variation as well, so I thought I'd get away with it! While this is being said, the ultimate arbiter is always the same: how it sounds like on a real C64. While it's hard to get exactly the same result, generally speaking, we can strive for a reasonable approximation. VICE's resid-fp hasn't had an update from me for a long time. I have been developing resid-fp mostly on Java, in a project called jsidplay2. -- Antti
From: Chrom_ on 13 Oct 2009 09:29 Antti, Thanks a lot for your support. The digi is almost muted on my "testbench". Please let me know if I can provide you with some more useful feedback. Keep up the great work! Mauro On Oct 13, 3:17 pm, alankila <alank...(a)bel.fi> wrote: > On Oct 13, 1:30 pm, Chrom_ <maurogra...(a)gmail.com> wrote: > > > > > Hi Guys, > > > I'm a great fan of the ReSIDfp engine and I use it with great pleasure > > under VICE (Linux compiled from sources by me). > > > Yesterday I've noticed with big surprise that the digitized voices > > perform _very_ poorly with ReSIDfp. For instance, try to load > > Impossibile Mission 2 and listen to the intro ("Another visitor, stay > > a while, stay Forever") with ReSID and then listen again with ReSIDfp. > > The former sounds well, the second is almost muted. I've noticed the > > same problem with any digitized sound (try IK+ fighters voices and > > punch sound effect during combat for example). > > > Being very puzzled, I tried to rebuild VICE 2.1, but the problem > > persisted. I tried on another PC and I got the same ugly output. I > > tried to switch between different SID models emulation, still using > > ReSIDfp, switching on and off the filters, but nothing helped. I > > didn't try the Windows version though. Please notice that if you wanna > > perform the same test, when you switch from a SID model to the other, > > check that ReSIDfp is still selected in the emulation engine menu, as > > it can switch back to ReSID that doesn't show the problem. > > Sounds like perhaps the DC offset of SID voices is too low for your > tastes. > I'll take a look: I remember I turned these down because the digis > tended to > drown the SID channels and there's some chip-to-chip variation as > well, so > I thought I'd get away with it! > > While this is being said, the ultimate arbiter is always the same: how > it sounds > like on a real C64. While it's hard to get exactly the same result, > generally > speaking, we can strive for a reasonable approximation. > > VICE's resid-fp hasn't had an update from me for a long time. I have > been > developing resid-fp mostly on Java, in a project called jsidplay2. > > -- > Antti
From: Chrom_ on 13 Oct 2009 16:47 As anticipated, I've takes sound samples to show you the bug: http://www.2shared.com/file/8416879/a3133ae1/im2.html In this mp3 you can hear the Impossible mission 2 digi voice intro with ReSID http://www.2shared.com/file/8416905/e4268a3a/im2fp.html In this file you can hear the same recording made with ReSID-fp. The initial digital speech is completely muted and the rest of the song is quite distorted (probably sing digital sounds too?) My setup is as follows: Ubuntu Linux 9.04, fully patched as of 13/10/2009 Vice 2.1, built from sources Vice audio settings: filter emulation on, emulated SID model 6581 (old). Same settings havebeen used for both the recordings, first using the ReSID engine, then ReSID-fp. Thanks for the feedback and opinions you will provide as usual! Mauro
From: Joe Forster/STA on 13 Oct 2009 17:22
I _think_ the reason for this problem is that the speech was written for (= is better heard on) old SID's but the music for new ones. Also, as far as I remember, the title music of Impossible Mission 2 has major compatibility problems with all kinds of settings in Sidplay2/w, as well: it is tricky to configure the player for perfect playback and those configuration settings are not good for playing most other SID's either. |