Recommend a feedback eliminator?
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From: Michael Dobony on 14 Nov 2009 17:36 On Fri, 13 Nov 2009 01:24:18 -0500, Leon(a)nospam.com wrote: > We're starting to get really bothered by feedback, and need an eliminator... > > Any suggestions or recommendations? > > Small venues, Mackie 450s and such... > > Thanks! Through your posts you state that it is DJ's having the problem with their mics, correct? What about other speakers using the mics? I see something also unaddressed by any post I read, that the problem is increasing. If so, what has changed? Or do you mean that the DJ's are getting tired of the battle against the same amount of feedback? A 4 band EQ is essentially useless. Mike D.
From: Tim Perry on 14 Nov 2009 17:43 <Leon(a)nospam.com> wrote in message news:t0utf5hb0afknd3m72td7ot0nv4svlb9j2(a)4ax.com... > On Sat, 14 Nov 2009 12:26:36 -0500, "George's Pro Sound Co." > <bmoas(a)yahoo.com> > wrote: > >> >>> >> >>Ok with so little to go on I have to make assumptions >>assumptions >>DJ is using CDJ type players >>Dj has a talk mic hook to the dj mixer >>dj cups the mic in his hand >> >>get the dj to hold the mic properly as I explained you destroy the >>directionality of the mic when you cup it >> >>it is unlikely the cdj's are feeding back >>if he has turntables then bass can cause rumble in the needles, he will >>need to establish better isolation of the turntables >> >>but most likely it is the dj cupping the mic, added to trying to get the >>mic >>over the already too loud music >> >>resolution you need a system with real head room >>one that would be probably abnout 4 x-8x what you are using >>the system has to reach at least 105 dB "C" weighted continous on the >>dance >>floor for iut to "feel like a dance club" >> >>I would add 4 la 400 subs driven with about 600 watts per sub >>the subs will give you the ball shaking you want for dance music without >>needing the 450 to be overdriven >> >>hire a real sound system for one night to show you what you really need to >>do this >>gizmos and toys like feedback eliminators and eq will not make a >>undersized >>system capable >>sorry if some of my assumptions are off base but it is based on >>experiance, >>seeing as we know very little about what you are running into >> >>George >> > > As far as I know it's only mics he's complaining about... but he did admit > to me > the volume was too high! > > We used to rent subs, we got 2 - 18" subs pretty much the same as we once > rented. We now have 4 - 450s and 2 experimental top boxes... 500w rms > Eminence's. Out of money at the moment for more bass units. > > I need to go to the next gig with my sound meter and take readings... see > if > there are holes in the response... I'm going to make some kind of sound > check CD > with tones to see what I can see... or bring my function gen. GOT to get > some > set-up time! > > Do you use a sound meter or something to check the room? I imagine you > have the > experience to just walk thru! > Leon, your best plan is to have a small mixer for which will mix the microphone + the DJ mixer. This should be after whatever "smiley face" EQ the DJ sets. I picked up one of these last month for a DJ buddy who started to do open mic nights. http://www.peavey.com/products/browse.cfm/action/detail/item/115033/PV�%208.cfm
From: Gareth Magennis on 14 Nov 2009 18:09 "Sean Conolly" <sjconolly_98(a)yaaho.com> wrote in message news:hdn8rc$ihk$1(a)news.eternal-september.org... > "Gareth Magennis" <sound.service(a)btconnect.com> wrote in message > news:t2FLm.105199$1i2.20747(a)newsfe07.ams2... >> >> "Joe Kotroczo" <kotroczo(a)mac.com> wrote in message >> news:C724C348.AADA8%kotroczo(a)mac.com... >>> On 13/11/2009 23:47, in article >>> k9orf5t5emdj27jog4dn6h6ea4ra2kcc4h(a)4ax.com, >>> "Leon(a)nospam.com" <Leon(a)nospam.com> wrote: >>> >>>> On 13 Nov 2009 20:27:35 GMT, >>>> Richard.Webb.my.foot(a)116-901.ftn.wpusa.dynip.com >>>> (Richard Webb) wrote: >>>> >>>>> On Fri 2037-Nov-13 01:24, Leon(a)nospam.com writes: >>>>>> We're starting to get really bothered by feedback, and need an >>>>>> eliminator... >>>>> >>>>> What about 1/3 octave graphics or good parametrics? Any of >>>>> those in the rig? >>>> >>>> So far we get along with a 4 band EQ in the mixer (xone92), but we're >>>> going to >>>> get a proper graphic unit, 31 bands sounds good! >>> >>> Hang on: you're getting feedback with a DJ rig? >>> >>> >>> -- >>> Joe Kotroczo kotroczo(a)mac.com >>> >> >> >> The DJ has a mic. >> >> Check out the mixer front panel. >> http://www.allen-heath.co.uk/ahimages/hi_res/xone92_top-panel2.jpg >> >> Look at the mic channel controls available. Now tell me you are not >> surprised that a DJ can make it feed back. > > So maybe a feedback eliminator might not be a bad idea, if it's only used > on the DJ mic. If the mic is being handled by someone who doesn't know > what they're doing, like cupping the mic or pointing it at the monitors, > and the same person is controlling the volume (unsupervised), an automatic > system maybe a good way to supress the feedback - after it starts. I don't > think it's possible to prevent feedback under these conditions. > > Of course, this is trying to find a solution from one domain (hardware) to > solve a problem in a different domain (lack of operator skills). The best > solution is to make sure that whomever is driving the rig actually knows > what they're doing: either train the DJs or get a baby-sitter. > > Sean > > I doubt its a cupping the mic problem. Much more likely the DJ wants more volume from a system that isn't capable of more volume. If the music is maxed out and clipping, he needs some way to make his mic even louder. He sees various volume and tone controls and turns them all up. Any automated system is not going to help. You'll be totally wasting your money. The DJ is only going to dial in more volume and EQ to try and achieve what he feels is lacking, with ultimately the same result. Sean, you're right, either train the DJ's or get a Babysitter. Gareth.
From: Leon on 14 Nov 2009 19:06 On Sat, 14 Nov 2009 16:36:11 -0600, Michael Dobony <survey(a)stopassaultnow.net> wrote: >On Fri, 13 Nov 2009 01:24:18 -0500, Leon(a)nospam.com wrote: > >> We're starting to get really bothered by feedback, and need an eliminator... >> >> Any suggestions or recommendations? >> >> Small venues, Mackie 450s and such... >> >> Thanks! > >Through your posts you state that it is DJ's having the problem with their >mics, correct? What about other speakers using the mics? I see something >also unaddressed by any post I read, that the problem is increasing. If so, >what has changed? Or do you mean that the DJ's are getting tired of the >battle against the same amount of feedback? A 4 band EQ is essentially >useless. > >Mike D. Well, as I reported to another poster, I don't know the exact problem yet since I wasn't at that gig, and the DJ hasn't answered my questions about it... I'm still waiting and haven't heard from him since Fri. Should find out tomorrow...
From: Leon on 14 Nov 2009 19:50
On Sat, 14 Nov 2009 20:26:28 +0100, Joe Kotroczo <kotroczo(a)mac.com> wrote: >On 13/11/2009 15:01, in article djoqf5lc1ipagctrl3hhenlgtatua106ll(a)4ax.com, >"Leon(a)nospam.com" <Leon(a)nospam.com> wrote: > >(...) >> >> Oh, for the guy who said "hire a sound engineer" - ouch! > >Why "ouch"? Because I'm the "sound engineer"! And we can't afford more people at the size we are, for the gigs we do. But I'm really a tech, helping out other family members with their DJ business. The audio I work with is more like 600 ohm with 3000 mile long wires! I'm just learning the world of sound reinforcement. The mics I'm used to working with have PTT switches on them! |