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From: mynick on 19 Jan 2010 20:22
On Jan 19, 3:07 pm, "mscotgr...(a)aol.com" <mscotgr...(a)aol.com> wrote:
> On Jan 19, 10:04 pm, David Brown
>
>
>
> <david.br...(a)hesbynett.removethisbit.no> wrote:
> > mscotgr...(a)aol.com wrote:
> > > On Jan 19, 3:23 pm, mynick <anglom...(a)yahoo.com> wrote:
> > >> On Jan 19, 1:56 am, Arno <m...(a)privacy.net> wrote:
>
> > >>> In comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.storage mynick <anglom...(a)yahoo.com> wrote:
> > >>>> Is there someundeletesoftware that can run only locally andundelete
> > >>>> from a mapped network ntfs disk without the aid of an client/agent
> > >>>> installed/running on thatremotecomputer?
> > >>> I doubt that very much, as the filesystem will not export
> > >>> the required information over the network.
> > >>> Arno
> > >>> --
> > >>> Arno Wagner, Dr. sc. techn., Dipl. Inform., CISSP -- Email: a...(a)wagner.name
> > >>> GnuPG:  ID: 1E25338F  FP: 0C30 5782 9D93 F785 E79C  0296 797F 6B50 1E25 338F
> > >>> ----
> > >>> Cuddly UI's are the manifestation of wishful thinking. -- Dylan Evans
> > >> why not send info from hdd directly over tcp/ip instead of an agent
> > >> doing the hdd search remotely and just sending the resulting list to
> > >> local- Hide quoted text -
>
> > >> - Show quoted text -
>
> > > Could you expand on this please.
>
> > > Toundeletea file it is necessary to access the hard drive on a
> > > sector level, and rewrite the MFT entry.  There is no way I am aware
> > > of doing this over a general purpose ethernet link.  If this was
> > > easily possible, network security would be a complete nightmare.
>
> > It is perfectly possible to do this over Ethernet - the most common way
> > is to use iSCSI (network block devices with *nix are another
> > possibility).  Of course, this involves making the partition effectively
> > invisible to the host (server) machine, and mounted on the guest machine
> > as though it were a local drive.  I don't know what sort of support
> > windows has for iSCSI, either as a target or initiator.  And it is
> > clearly impractical for the issue at hand.  But it /is/ possible to give
> > direct low-level access to a hard drive over a network.- Hide quoted text -
>
> > - Show quoted text -
>
> The question asked for access without a "client /agent
> installed/running on thatremotecomputer"
>
> I think you will find that iSCSI has to be set up on BOTH ends -
> please say if I am wrong
>
> With a client app installed, there is no problem, but as a straight
> mapped drive, I think it is impossible.
>
> Michael

how about remote if this is undelete :
disk/folder scanning to find deleted entries in Root Folder (FAT) or
Master File Table (NTFS) then for the particular deleted entry,
defining clusters chain to be recovered and then copying contents of
these clusters to the newly created file
(another way to undelete is scanning disks empty space for signatures/
traces of known file types of interest and I doubt that can be done
over tcp/ip )
From: David Brown on 20 Jan 2010 02:59
mscotgrove(a)aol.com wrote:
> On Jan 19, 10:04 pm, David Brown
> <david.br...(a)hesbynett.removethisbit.no> wrote:
>> mscotgr...(a)aol.com wrote:
>>> On Jan 19, 3:23 pm, mynick <anglom...(a)yahoo.com> wrote:
>>>> On Jan 19, 1:56 am, Arno <m...(a)privacy.net> wrote:
>>>>> In comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.storage mynick <anglom...(a)yahoo.com> wrote:
>>>>>> Is there some undelete software that can run only locally and undelete
>>>>>> from a mapped network ntfs disk without the aid of an client/agent
>>>>>> installed/running on thatremotecomputer?
>>>>> I doubt that very much, as the filesystem will not export
>>>>> the required information over the network.
>>>>> Arno
>>>>> --
>>>>> Arno Wagner, Dr. sc. techn., Dipl. Inform., CISSP -- Email: a...(a)wagner.name
>>>>> GnuPG: ID: 1E25338F FP: 0C30 5782 9D93 F785 E79C 0296 797F 6B50 1E25 338F
>>>>> ----
>>>>> Cuddly UI's are the manifestation of wishful thinking. -- Dylan Evans
>>>> why not send info from hdd directly over tcp/ip instead of an agent
>>>> doing the hdd search remotely and just sending the resulting list to
>>>> local- Hide quoted text -
>>>> - Show quoted text -
>>> Could you expand on this please.
>>> To undelete a file it is necessary to access the hard drive on a
>>> sector level, and rewrite the MFT entry. There is no way I am aware
>>> of doing this over a general purpose ethernet link. If this was
>>> easily possible, network security would be a complete nightmare.
>> It is perfectly possible to do this over Ethernet - the most common way
>> is to use iSCSI (network block devices with *nix are another
>> possibility). Of course, this involves making the partition effectively
>> invisible to the host (server) machine, and mounted on the guest machine
>> as though it were a local drive. I don't know what sort of support
>> windows has for iSCSI, either as a target or initiator. And it is
>> clearly impractical for the issue at hand. But it /is/ possible to give
>> direct low-level access to a hard drive over a network.- Hide quoted text -
>>
>> - Show quoted text -
>
> The question asked for access without a "client /agent
> installed/running on that remote computer"
>
> I think you will find that iSCSI has to be set up on BOTH ends -
> please say if I am wrong
>

You are entirely correct - iSCSI needs to be configured at both ends. I
was just pointing out that such low-level disk sharing is certainly
possible, if you choose to use it.

> With a client app installed, there is no problem, but as a straight
> mapped drive, I think it is impossible.
>

One possibility is that windows has a number of backdoors that allow
execution of software on a remote machine without actively installing
something there. The simplest and safest tools are probably things like
psexec from the SysInternals Suite (download from MS). psexec lets you
execute commands directly on a remote machine, assuming you have an
administrator password for the machine.

From: mynick on 20 Jan 2010 21:10
On Jan 19, 11:59 pm, David Brown <da...(a)westcontrol.removethisbit.com>
wrote:
> mscotgr...(a)aol.com wrote:
> > On Jan 19, 10:04 pm, David Brown
> > <david.br...(a)hesbynett.removethisbit.no> wrote:
> >> mscotgr...(a)aol.com wrote:
> >>> On Jan 19, 3:23 pm, mynick <anglom...(a)yahoo.com> wrote:
> >>>> On Jan 19, 1:56 am, Arno <m...(a)privacy.net> wrote:
> >>>>> In comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.storage mynick <anglom...(a)yahoo.com> wrote:
> >>>>>> Is there some undelete software that can run only locally and undelete
> >>>>>> from a mapped network ntfs disk without the aid of an client/agent
> >>>>>> installed/running on thatremotecomputer?
> >>>>> I doubt that very much, as the filesystem will not export
> >>>>> the required information over the network.
> >>>>> Arno
> >>>>> --
> >>>>> Arno Wagner, Dr. sc. techn., Dipl. Inform., CISSP -- Email: a...(a)wagner.name
> >>>>> GnuPG:  ID: 1E25338F  FP: 0C30 5782 9D93 F785 E79C  0296 797F 6B50 1E25 338F
> >>>>> ----
> >>>>> Cuddly UI's are the manifestation of wishful thinking. -- Dylan Evans
> >>>> why not send info from hdd directly over tcp/ip instead of an agent
> >>>> doing the hdd search remotely and just sending the resulting list to
> >>>> local- Hide quoted text -
> >>>> - Show quoted text -
> >>> Could you expand on this please.
> >>> To undelete a file it is necessary to access the hard drive on a
> >>> sector level, and rewrite the MFT entry.  There is no way I am aware
> >>> of doing this over a general purpose ethernet link.  If this was
> >>> easily possible, network security would be a complete nightmare.
> >> It is perfectly possible to do this over Ethernet - the most common way
> >> is to use iSCSI (network block devices with *nix are another
> >> possibility).  Of course, this involves making the partition effectively
> >> invisible to the host (server) machine, and mounted on the guest machine
> >> as though it were a local drive.  I don't know what sort of support
> >> windows has for iSCSI, either as a target or initiator.  And it is
> >> clearly impractical for the issue at hand.  But it /is/ possible to give
> >> direct low-level access to a hard drive over a network.- Hide quoted text -
>
> >> - Show quoted text -
>
> > The question asked for access without a "client /agent
> > installed/running on thatremotecomputer"
>
> > I think you will find that iSCSI has to be set up on BOTH ends -
> > please say if I am wrong
>
> You are entirely correct - iSCSI needs to be configured at both ends.  I
> was just pointing out that such low-level disk sharing is certainly
> possible, if you choose to use it.
>
> > With a client app installed, there is no problem, but as a straight
> > mapped drive, I think it is impossible.
>
> One possibility is that windows has a number of backdoors that allow
> execution of software on aremotemachine without actively installing
> something there.  The simplest and safest tools are probably things like
> psexec from the SysInternals Suite (download from MS).  psexec lets you
> execute commands directly on aremotemachine, assuming you have an
> administrator password for the machine.

what do you think of nbd protocol?
running nbdsrvr on remote if that does not require special privilleges
on remote
and than using Selfimage which supports nbd (but perhaps not the
nbdsrvr.exe version)
From: David Brown on 21 Jan 2010 02:51
mynick wrote:
> On Jan 19, 11:59 pm, David Brown <da...(a)westcontrol.removethisbit.com>
> wrote:
>> mscotgr...(a)aol.com wrote:
>>> On Jan 19, 10:04 pm, David Brown
>>> <david.br...(a)hesbynett.removethisbit.no> wrote:
>>>> mscotgr...(a)aol.com wrote:
>>>>> On Jan 19, 3:23 pm, mynick <anglom...(a)yahoo.com> wrote:
>>>>>> On Jan 19, 1:56 am, Arno <m...(a)privacy.net> wrote:
>>>>>>> In comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.storage mynick <anglom...(a)yahoo.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>> Is there some undelete software that can run only locally and undelete
>>>>>>>> from a mapped network ntfs disk without the aid of an client/agent
>>>>>>>> installed/running on thatremotecomputer?
>>>>>>> I doubt that very much, as the filesystem will not export
>>>>>>> the required information over the network.
>>>>>>> Arno
>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>> Arno Wagner, Dr. sc. techn., Dipl. Inform., CISSP -- Email: a...(a)wagner.name
>>>>>>> GnuPG: ID: 1E25338F FP: 0C30 5782 9D93 F785 E79C 0296 797F 6B50 1E25 338F
>>>>>>> ----
>>>>>>> Cuddly UI's are the manifestation of wishful thinking. -- Dylan Evans
>>>>>> why not send info from hdd directly over tcp/ip instead of an agent
>>>>>> doing the hdd search remotely and just sending the resulting list to
>>>>>> local- Hide quoted text -
>>>>>> - Show quoted text -
>>>>> Could you expand on this please.
>>>>> To undelete a file it is necessary to access the hard drive on a
>>>>> sector level, and rewrite the MFT entry. There is no way I am aware
>>>>> of doing this over a general purpose ethernet link. If this was
>>>>> easily possible, network security would be a complete nightmare.
>>>> It is perfectly possible to do this over Ethernet - the most common way
>>>> is to use iSCSI (network block devices with *nix are another
>>>> possibility). Of course, this involves making the partition effectively
>>>> invisible to the host (server) machine, and mounted on the guest machine
>>>> as though it were a local drive. I don't know what sort of support
>>>> windows has for iSCSI, either as a target or initiator. And it is
>>>> clearly impractical for the issue at hand. But it /is/ possible to give
>>>> direct low-level access to a hard drive over a network.- Hide quoted text -
>>>> - Show quoted text -
>>> The question asked for access without a "client /agent
>>> installed/running on thatremotecomputer"
>>> I think you will find that iSCSI has to be set up on BOTH ends -
>>> please say if I am wrong
>> You are entirely correct - iSCSI needs to be configured at both ends. I
>> was just pointing out that such low-level disk sharing is certainly
>> possible, if you choose to use it.
>>
>>> With a client app installed, there is no problem, but as a straight
>>> mapped drive, I think it is impossible.
>> One possibility is that windows has a number of backdoors that allow
>> execution of software on aremotemachine without actively installing
>> something there. The simplest and safest tools are probably things like
>> psexec from the SysInternals Suite (download from MS). psexec lets you
>> execute commands directly on aremotemachine, assuming you have an
>> administrator password for the machine.
>
> what do you think of nbd protocol?
> running nbdsrvr on remote if that does not require special privilleges
> on remote
> and than using Selfimage which supports nbd (but perhaps not the
> nbdsrvr.exe version)

I've only used nbd with Linux systems (to give an embedded Linux system
a swap disk) - I have no idea about support in windows for nbd. But
generally speaking, if you are using nbd to "share" a partition, the
partition cannot also be accessed locally.
From: mynick on 21 Jan 2010 20:31
On Jan 20, 11:51 pm, David Brown <da...(a)westcontrol.removethisbit.com>
wrote:
> mynick wrote:
> > On Jan 19, 11:59 pm, David Brown <da...(a)westcontrol.removethisbit.com>
> > wrote:
> >> mscotgr...(a)aol.com wrote:
> >>> On Jan 19, 10:04 pm, David Brown
> >>> <david.br...(a)hesbynett.removethisbit.no> wrote:
> >>>> mscotgr...(a)aol.com wrote:
> >>>>> On Jan 19, 3:23 pm, mynick <anglom...(a)yahoo.com> wrote:
> >>>>>> On Jan 19, 1:56 am, Arno <m...(a)privacy.net> wrote:
> >>>>>>> In comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.storage mynick <anglom...(a)yahoo.com> wrote:
> >>>>>>>> Is there some undelete software that can run only locally and undelete
> >>>>>>>> from a mapped network ntfs disk without the aid of an client/agent
> >>>>>>>> installed/running on thatremotecomputer?
> >>>>>>> I doubt that very much, as the filesystem will not export
> >>>>>>> the required information over the network.
> >>>>>>> Arno
> >>>>>>> --
> >>>>>>> Arno Wagner, Dr. sc. techn., Dipl. Inform., CISSP -- Email: a...(a)wagner.name
> >>>>>>> GnuPG:  ID: 1E25338F  FP: 0C30 5782 9D93 F785 E79C  0296 797F 6B50 1E25 338F
> >>>>>>> ----
> >>>>>>> Cuddly UI's are the manifestation of wishful thinking. -- Dylan Evans
> >>>>>> why not send info from hdd directly over tcp/ip instead of an agent
> >>>>>> doing the hdd search remotely and just sending the resulting list to
> >>>>>> local- Hide quoted text -
> >>>>>> - Show quoted text -
> >>>>> Could you expand on this please.
> >>>>> To undelete a file it is necessary to access the hard drive on a
> >>>>> sector level, and rewrite the MFT entry.  There is no way I am aware
> >>>>> of doing this over a general purpose ethernet link.  If this was
> >>>>> easily possible, network security would be a complete nightmare.
> >>>> It is perfectly possible to do this over Ethernet - the most common way
> >>>> is to use iSCSI (network block devices with *nix are another
> >>>> possibility).  Of course, this involves making the partition effectively
> >>>> invisible to the host (server) machine, and mounted on the guest machine
> >>>> as though it were a local drive.  I don't know what sort of support
> >>>> windows has for iSCSI, either as a target or initiator.  And it is
> >>>> clearly impractical for the issue at hand.  But it /is/ possible to give
> >>>> direct low-level access to a hard drive over a network.- Hide quoted text -
> >>>> - Show quoted text -
> >>> The question asked for access without a "client /agent
> >>> installed/running on thatremotecomputer"
> >>> I think you will find that iSCSI has to be set up on BOTH ends -
> >>> please say if I am wrong
> >> You are entirely correct - iSCSI needs to be configured at both ends.  I
> >> was just pointing out that such low-level disk sharing is certainly
> >> possible, if you choose to use it.
>
> >>> With a client app installed, there is no problem, but as a straight
> >>> mapped drive, I think it is impossible.
> >> One possibility is that windows has a number of backdoors that allow
> >> execution of software on aremotemachine without actively installing
> >> something there.  The simplest and safest tools are probably things like
> >> psexec from the SysInternals Suite (download from MS).  psexec lets you
> >> execute commands directly on aremotemachine, assuming you have an
> >> administrator password for the machine.
>
> > what do you think of nbd protocol?
> > running nbdsrvr on remote if that does not require special privilleges
> > on remote
> > and than using Selfimage which supports nbd (but perhaps not the
> > nbdsrvr.exe version)
>
> I've only used nbd with Linux systems (to give an embedded Linux system
> a swap disk) - I have no idea about support in windows for nbd.  But
> generally speaking, if you are using nbd to "share" a partition, the
> partition cannot also be accessed locally.

nbdsrvr for win can be found at http://www.vanheusden.com/
however nbd readme says
Do *NOT* share partitions/files that are already in mounted/in use! It
is
almost for sure that corruptions will occure???
-is that what 'cannot' meant
and would it make difference if there would be only 1 PC accesing the
remote share ?
Another idea might be using running locally and remotely dd command
for win- perhaps that could go through smb
(and after copying dd to mapped share it could be started via telnet
because above mentioned psexec expects it on remote in c:\windows
which is not accessible)



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