Repair water damaged Solar Garden Lamp
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From: Dave_s on 26 Feb 2010 10:05 Paul and others, http://s1001.photobucket.com/albums/af140/Dave_ss/Garden%20Solar%20Lamps%20Repair/?action=view¤t=Water-inside-solar-garden-lamp-CORR.jpg My Solar Lamp has no inductors that suggest a "Joule Thief" circuit is used. My LED is orange, not white. I tried to use run your netlist with my LTSPICE 4. Only get error message "multiple instances of SYMATTRIB". I copied your netlist into NOTEPAD and saved as SOLAR_JOULE.CIR. Can youi suggest what else I can do to run your LTSPICE JOULE_THEIF FILE"? The pcboard looks full of water damage salts. After cleaning with SIMPLE_GREEN and ALCOHOL, the repaired board does not make the LED turn on. Is the base bias resistors, 15K and 100K setting the threshold for LED turn-on at sunrise? My schematic is suspicious since there is no current limiting resistor between LED and SOLAR CELL VOLTAGE. They cannot possibly be running the LED directly off the battery without current limiting? Thanks for all your help. Dave_S Paul E. Schoen wrote: > "Dave_s" <group78(a)dslextreme.com> wrote in message > news:Gsygn.53313$Ee1.31891(a)newsfe12.iad... >> At >> http://s1001.photobucket.com/albums/af140/Dave_ss/Garden%20Solar%20Lamps%20Repair/?action=view¤t=Water-inside-solar-garden-lamp-CORR.jpg >> are pictures of my water damaged Solar Garden Lamps. >> >> Pictures show the damaged Solar Garden Lamps I need to repair. The OEM >> long ago discontinued this product making impossible to buy replacement >> gaskets and parts for the electronics. >> >> I am trying to repair these units. >> >> I need to buy replacement resistors and diodes. >> >> The resistors are smaller than normal 1/4W parts and the pad lead holes >> are too small for 1/4W parts. Same problem with the diode. It looks >> like a mini smaller 1N4001 package with much smaller diameter leads >> holes in pads. >> >> The transistor is marked STS but I cannot find any info for this part at >> STS web site. Is this a FET or bipolar. Need datasheet to find ratings. >> Thank you for any help. Dave_s > > I think these lamps usually use a "joule thief" type circuit which can > generate the required 3 VDC or so for the white LED from mostly depleted > NiCd cells down to 2 VDC or less. But that would indicate a little > inductor/transformer, which I don't see in the photos. I made the following > "joule thief" circuit which actually regulates the LED current over a range > of battery voltages, and I have attached the LTSpice schematic. I actually > built the circuit and it drives two large white LEDs in series with as low > as 2 VDC, and it's fairly efficient. > > What is also lacking is the charging circuit from the photovoltaic cells to > the battery. It might be just a Schottky diode. > > Some components in the attached circuit may not be required, and values are > not critical. If you do a search you may find very simple circuits and even > one or two that use a bunch of turns of wire on a nail for the tapped > inductor. Maybe you can roll your own circuit as a deadbug and then > encapsulate it in electrical grade silicone. > > Paul > > -------------------------------------------------------------- > Version 4 > SHEET 1 880 680 > WIRE 80 0 -112 0 > WIRE 208 0 80 0 > WIRE 80 16 80 0 > WIRE 208 16 208 0 > WIRE 208 112 208 96 > WIRE 368 112 208 112 > WIRE -112 128 -112 0 > WIRE 80 128 80 96 > WIRE 208 176 208 112 > WIRE 80 224 80 208 > WIRE 80 224 0 224 > WIRE 96 224 80 224 > WIRE 144 224 96 224 > WIRE 0 240 0 224 > WIRE 96 256 96 224 > WIRE 192 304 160 304 > WIRE 288 304 272 304 > WIRE 368 304 352 304 > WIRE 496 304 368 304 > WIRE 272 320 272 304 > WIRE 496 320 496 304 > WIRE -112 384 -112 208 > WIRE 0 384 0 304 > WIRE 0 384 -112 384 > WIRE 96 384 96 352 > WIRE 96 384 0 384 > WIRE 208 384 208 272 > WIRE 208 384 96 384 > WIRE 272 384 208 384 > WIRE 368 384 272 384 > WIRE 496 384 368 384 > WIRE 368 432 368 384 > FLAG 368 432 0 > SYMBOL npn 144 176 R0 > WINDOW 0 33 47 Left 0 > SYMATTR InstName Q1 > SYMATTR Value 2N2219A > SYMBOL ind2 96 112 R180 > WINDOW 0 36 80 Left 0 > WINDOW 3 36 40 Left 0 > SYMATTR InstName L1 > SYMATTR Value 800� > SYMATTR Type ind > SYMBOL ind2 192 0 R0 > SYMATTR InstName L2 > SYMATTR Value 100� > SYMATTR Type ind > SYMBOL LED 352 240 R0 > WINDOW 3 22 69 Left 0 > SYMATTR InstName D1 > SYMATTR Value AOT-2015 > SYMBOL res 64 112 R0 > SYMATTR InstName R1 > SYMATTR Value 1k > SYMBOL voltage -112 112 R0 > WINDOW 123 0 0 Left 0 > WINDOW 39 0 0 Left 0 > SYMATTR InstName V1 > SYMATTR Value 3 > SYMBOL LED 352 112 R0 > SYMATTR InstName D2 > SYMATTR Value AOT-2015 > SYMBOL schottky 16 304 R180 > WINDOW 0 24 72 Left 0 > WINDOW 3 24 0 Left 0 > SYMATTR InstName D3 > SYMATTR Value 1N5818 > SYMATTR Description Diode > SYMATTR Type diode > SYMBOL LED 352 176 R0 > SYMATTR InstName D4 > SYMATTR Value AOT-2015 > SYMBOL res 352 288 R0 > SYMATTR InstName R2 > SYMATTR Value 30 > SYMBOL npn 160 256 M0 > WINDOW 0 33 47 Left 0 > SYMATTR InstName Q2 > SYMATTR Value 2N2219A > SYMBOL schottky 352 288 R90 > WINDOW 0 0 32 VBottom 0 > WINDOW 3 32 32 VTop 0 > SYMATTR InstName D5 > SYMATTR Value 1N5818 > SYMATTR Description Diode > SYMATTR Type diode > SYMBOL cap 256 320 R0 > SYMATTR InstName C1 > SYMATTR Value 100n > SYMBOL res 288 288 R90 > WINDOW 0 0 56 VBottom 0 > WINDOW 3 34 46 VTop 0 > SYMATTR InstName R3 > SYMATTR Value 1k > SYMBOL cap 480 320 R0 > SYMATTR InstName C2 > SYMATTR Value 10� > TEXT 280 72 Left 0 !K1 L1 L2 1 > TEXT -66 360 Left 0 !.tran 10m startup > >
From: Martin Brown on 26 Feb 2010 10:20 Dave_s wrote: > Paul and others, > > http://s1001.photobucket.com/albums/af140/Dave_ss/Garden%20Solar%20Lamps%20Repair/?action=view¤t=Water-inside-solar-garden-lamp-CORR.jpg > > > My Solar Lamp has no inductors that suggest a "Joule Thief" circuit > is used. My LED is orange, not white. > > I tried to use run your netlist with my LTSPICE 4. Only get error > message "multiple instances of SYMATTRIB". > > I copied your netlist into NOTEPAD and saved as SOLAR_JOULE.CIR. > Can youi suggest what else I can do to run your LTSPICE JOULE_THEIF FILE"? > > The pcboard looks full of water damage salts. After cleaning with > SIMPLE_GREEN and ALCOHOL, the repaired board does not make the LED turn on. > Is the base bias resistors, 15K and 100K setting the threshold for > LED turn-on at sunrise? > > My schematic is suspicious since there is no current limiting > resistor between LED and SOLAR CELL VOLTAGE. They cannot possibly be > running the LED directly off the battery without current limiting? There must be a transistor though and it will therefore be current limited by the base input current x gain. Have you traced the circuit board to a diagram and checked the component values and track continuity with a DVM ? Unless you are really fond of it for sentimental reasons your best bet is to buy a new one or make a joule thief variant from scratch to fit in the same physical space. Designs using a pair of NiCads will barely light an orange led in series with a transistor - are you sure there isn't a small inductor hiding somewhere? It might look to the untrained eye like a resistor with unusual bands on. Regards, Martin Brown
From: Hammy on 26 Feb 2010 10:29 On Fri, 26 Feb 2010 07:05:43 -0800, Dave_s <group78(a)dslextreme.com> wrote: >Paul and others, > >http://s1001.photobucket.com/albums/af140/Dave_ss/Garden%20Solar%20Lamps%20Repair/?action=view¤t=Water-inside-solar-garden-lamp-CORR.jpg > > My Solar Lamp has no inductors that suggest a "Joule Thief" circuit is >used. My LED is orange, not white. > > I tried to use run your netlist with my LTSPICE 4. Only get error >message "multiple instances of SYMATTRIB". > > I copied your netlist into NOTEPAD and saved as SOLAR_JOULE.CIR. >Can youi suggest what else I can do to run your LTSPICE JOULE_THEIF FILE"? > > The pcboard looks full of water damage salts. After cleaning with >SIMPLE_GREEN and ALCOHOL, the repaired board does not make the LED turn on. > Is the base bias resistors, 15K and 100K setting the threshold for LED >turn-on at sunrise? > > My schematic is suspicious since there is no current limiting resistor >between LED and SOLAR CELL VOLTAGE. They cannot possibly be running the >LED directly off the battery without current limiting? > > > > Thanks for all your help. Dave_S > > If you still haven't found the datasheet for your transistors this may be it if I read the numbers of your picture correctly. http://www.datasheetcatalog.org/datasheet/auk/STS8050.pdf
From: Paul E. Schoen on 26 Feb 2010 20:16 "Dave_s" <group78(a)dslextreme.com> wrote in message news:hrRhn.4015$mn6.911(a)newsfe07.iad... > Paul and others, > > http://s1001.photobucket.com/albums/af140/Dave_ss/Garden%20Solar%20Lamps%20Repair/?action=view¤t=Water-inside-solar-garden-lamp-CORR.jpg > > My Solar Lamp has no inductors that suggest a "Joule Thief" circuit is > used. My LED is orange, not white. > > I tried to use run your netlist with my LTSPICE 4. Only get error message > "multiple instances of SYMATTRIB". > > I copied your netlist into NOTEPAD and saved as SOLAR_JOULE.CIR. > Can youi suggest what else I can do to run your LTSPICE JOULE_THEIF > FILE"? It is not a netlist (.cir or .net). It includes graphical information for the schematic and should be saved as ASC. The inductor I used is a Cooper DRQ74-101 which is a 10/40 uH coupled inductor in a 7.5mm SMT package. I have attached a simpler version which delivers about 20 mA into a 6V LED load with battery voltage from 2V to 5V, and 10mA with 1.5V. > The pcboard looks full of water damage salts. After cleaning with > SIMPLE_GREEN and ALCOHOL, the repaired board does not make the LED turn > on. > Is the base bias resistors, 15K and 100K setting the threshold for LED > turn-on at sunrise? I did not see your schematic previously. It does not seem quite right. The first transistor seems to be used to turn off the second transistor when the solar cell is producing current. The large diode is usually used to keep the battery from backfeeding into the photocell when it is dark. It is possible that a second photocell could be used just to detect light, but unless it is just a tiny device it does not seem correct. The 15k resistor should be connected to the photocell, but the 3k resistor and LED should be connected to the battery. The photocells might be connected in series to give enough voltage. > My schematic is suspicious since there is no current limiting resistor > between LED and SOLAR CELL VOLTAGE. They cannot possibly be running the > LED directly off the battery without current limiting? The battery is probably connected through a current limiting device to the LEDs and the photocell. It also needs to be configured so that the photocell charges the battery but disconnects the LED load when it is providing current, and then connect the LEDs to the battery when it is dark. Here is a link to two circuits for solar powered garden lights: http://talkingelectronics.com/projects/SolarLight/SolarLight.html And here are more circuits, ranging from simplest possible to one that uses a microcontroller: http://www.evilmadscientist.com/article.php/solar Paul ====================== JouleThief1.ASC ========================== Version 4 SHEET 1 880 680 WIRE 80 0 -112 0 WIRE 208 0 80 0 WIRE 80 16 80 0 WIRE 208 16 208 0 WIRE 80 112 80 96 WIRE 208 112 208 96 WIRE 256 112 208 112 WIRE 368 112 320 112 WIRE 560 112 368 112 WIRE -112 128 -112 0 WIRE 368 128 368 112 WIRE 208 176 208 112 WIRE 560 192 560 112 WIRE 368 208 368 192 WIRE 80 224 80 192 WIRE 144 224 80 224 WIRE 80 256 80 224 WIRE 240 304 144 304 WIRE 368 304 368 272 WIRE 368 304 320 304 WIRE 400 304 368 304 WIRE 496 304 400 304 WIRE 496 320 496 304 WIRE -112 384 -112 208 WIRE 80 384 80 352 WIRE 80 384 -112 384 WIRE 208 384 208 272 WIRE 208 384 80 384 WIRE 400 384 208 384 WIRE 496 384 400 384 WIRE 560 384 560 256 WIRE 560 384 496 384 WIRE 560 416 560 384 FLAG 560 416 0 SYMBOL npn 144 176 R0 WINDOW 0 33 47 Left 0 SYMATTR InstName Q1 SYMATTR Value 2N3904 SYMBOL ind2 96 112 R180 WINDOW 0 36 80 Left 0 WINDOW 3 36 40 Left 0 SYMATTR InstName L1 SYMATTR Value 20� SYMATTR Type ind SYMBOL ind2 192 0 R0 SYMATTR InstName L2 SYMATTR Value 20� SYMATTR Type ind SYMBOL LED 352 208 R0 WINDOW 3 76 25 Left 0 SYMATTR Value AOT-2015 SYMATTR InstName D1 SYMBOL res 64 96 R0 SYMATTR InstName R1 SYMATTR Value 4.99k SYMBOL voltage -112 112 R0 WINDOW 123 0 0 Left 0 WINDOW 39 0 0 Left 0 SYMATTR InstName V1 SYMATTR Value 2 SYMBOL LED 352 128 R0 WINDOW 3 74 35 Left 0 SYMATTR InstName D2 SYMATTR Value AOT-2015 SYMBOL res 384 288 R0 SYMATTR InstName R2 SYMATTR Value 27 SYMBOL npn 144 256 M0 WINDOW 0 33 47 Left 0 SYMATTR InstName Q2 SYMATTR Value 2N3904 SYMBOL res 336 288 R90 WINDOW 0 0 56 VBottom 0 WINDOW 3 34 46 VTop 0 SYMATTR InstName R3 SYMATTR Value 499 SYMBOL cap 480 320 R0 WINDOW 3 31 47 Left 0 SYMATTR InstName C2 SYMATTR Value 10� SYMBOL schottky 256 128 R270 WINDOW 0 32 32 VTop 0 WINDOW 3 0 32 VBottom 0 SYMATTR InstName D3 SYMATTR Value 1N5818 SYMATTR Description Diode SYMATTR Type diode SYMBOL cap 544 192 R0 SYMATTR InstName C1 SYMATTR Value 220n TEXT 272 40 Left 0 !K1 L1 L2 1 TEXT -96 408 Left 0 !.tran 2m startup
From: Dave_s on 27 Feb 2010 09:50
Paul, Ok, your LTSPICE circuit runs and simulates after renaming your circuit from "*.cir" to "*.asc". I followed some of your links and will follow them all later. Your mailnote was 'terrific', loaded with much useful info. My schematic does look possibly wrong and incomplete and I will more carefully recheck and correct. I just read that it may be common to operate the "LED without a current limiting resistor" due to solar cell voltages being small. My lamp circuit certainly seems different than ANY of the "Joule Thief" style circuits shown. No where on the visible exposed pcboard are any inductors, transformers or capacitors. Makes unlikely that my Lamps use a "Joule Thief" circuit unless there is another circuit board inside the lamp in the chamber with the solar cells. Frozen Phillips head screws presently prevent me from looking at the exact wiring of the solar cells and NiCd cell wiring and looking for a 2nd circuit board. I have much work to do and will advise results later. Hope to provice an accurate schematic of my Malibou Solar Lamps. Many thanks, Dave_s Paul E. Schoen wrote: > "Dave_s" <group78(a)dslextreme.com> wrote in message > news:hrRhn.4015$mn6.911(a)newsfe07.iad... >> Paul and others, >> >> http://s1001.photobucket.com/albums/af140/Dave_ss/Garden%20Solar%20Lamps%20Repair/?action=view¤t=Water-inside-solar-garden-lamp-CORR.jpg >> >> My Solar Lamp has no inductors that suggest a "Joule Thief" circuit is >> used. My LED is orange, not white. >> >> I tried to use run your netlist with my LTSPICE 4. Only get error message >> "multiple instances of SYMATTRIB". >> >> I copied your netlist into NOTEPAD and saved as SOLAR_JOULE.CIR. >> Can youi suggest what else I can do to run your LTSPICE JOULE_THEIF >> FILE"? > > It is not a netlist (.cir or .net). It includes graphical information for > the schematic and should be saved as ASC. The inductor I used is a Cooper > DRQ74-101 which is a 10/40 uH coupled inductor in a 7.5mm SMT package. I > have attached a simpler version which delivers about 20 mA into a 6V LED > load with battery voltage from 2V to 5V, and 10mA with 1.5V. > > >> The pcboard looks full of water damage salts. After cleaning with >> SIMPLE_GREEN and ALCOHOL, the repaired board does not make the LED turn >> on. >> Is the base bias resistors, 15K and 100K setting the threshold for LED >> turn-on at sunrise? > > I did not see your schematic previously. It does not seem quite right. The > first transistor seems to be used to turn off the second transistor when > the solar cell is producing current. The large diode is usually used to > keep the battery from backfeeding into the photocell when it is dark. It is > possible that a second photocell could be used just to detect light, but > unless it is just a tiny device it does not seem correct. The 15k resistor > should be connected to the photocell, but the 3k resistor and LED should be > connected to the battery. The photocells might be connected in series to > give enough voltage. > >> My schematic is suspicious since there is no current limiting resistor >> between LED and SOLAR CELL VOLTAGE. They cannot possibly be running the >> LED directly off the battery without current limiting? > > The battery is probably connected through a current limiting device to the > LEDs and the photocell. It also needs to be configured so that the > photocell charges the battery but disconnects the LED load when it is > providing current, and then connect the LEDs to the battery when it is > dark. > > Here is a link to two circuits for solar powered garden lights: > http://talkingelectronics.com/projects/SolarLight/SolarLight.html > > And here are more circuits, ranging from simplest possible to one that uses > a microcontroller: > http://www.evilmadscientist.com/article.php/solar > > Paul > > ====================== JouleThief1.ASC ========================== > > Version 4 > SHEET 1 880 680 > WIRE 80 0 -112 0 > WIRE 208 0 80 0 > WIRE 80 16 80 0 > WIRE 208 16 208 0 > WIRE 80 112 80 96 > WIRE 208 112 208 96 > WIRE 256 112 208 112 > WIRE 368 112 320 112 > WIRE 560 112 368 112 > WIRE -112 128 -112 0 > WIRE 368 128 368 112 > WIRE 208 176 208 112 > WIRE 560 192 560 112 > WIRE 368 208 368 192 > WIRE 80 224 80 192 > WIRE 144 224 80 224 > WIRE 80 256 80 224 > WIRE 240 304 144 304 > WIRE 368 304 368 272 > WIRE 368 304 320 304 > WIRE 400 304 368 304 > WIRE 496 304 400 304 > WIRE 496 320 496 304 > WIRE -112 384 -112 208 > WIRE 80 384 80 352 > WIRE 80 384 -112 384 > WIRE 208 384 208 272 > WIRE 208 384 80 384 > WIRE 400 384 208 384 > WIRE 496 384 400 384 > WIRE 560 384 560 256 > WIRE 560 384 496 384 > WIRE 560 416 560 384 > FLAG 560 416 0 > SYMBOL npn 144 176 R0 > WINDOW 0 33 47 Left 0 > SYMATTR InstName Q1 > SYMATTR Value 2N3904 > SYMBOL ind2 96 112 R180 > WINDOW 0 36 80 Left 0 > WINDOW 3 36 40 Left 0 > SYMATTR InstName L1 > SYMATTR Value 20� > SYMATTR Type ind > SYMBOL ind2 192 0 R0 > SYMATTR InstName L2 > SYMATTR Value 20� > SYMATTR Type ind > SYMBOL LED 352 208 R0 > WINDOW 3 76 25 Left 0 > SYMATTR Value AOT-2015 > SYMATTR InstName D1 > SYMBOL res 64 96 R0 > SYMATTR InstName R1 > SYMATTR Value 4.99k > SYMBOL voltage -112 112 R0 > WINDOW 123 0 0 Left 0 > WINDOW 39 0 0 Left 0 > SYMATTR InstName V1 > SYMATTR Value 2 > SYMBOL LED 352 128 R0 > WINDOW 3 74 35 Left 0 > SYMATTR InstName D2 > SYMATTR Value AOT-2015 > SYMBOL res 384 288 R0 > SYMATTR InstName R2 > SYMATTR Value 27 > SYMBOL npn 144 256 M0 > WINDOW 0 33 47 Left 0 > SYMATTR InstName Q2 > SYMATTR Value 2N3904 > SYMBOL res 336 288 R90 > WINDOW 0 0 56 VBottom 0 > WINDOW 3 34 46 VTop 0 > SYMATTR InstName R3 > SYMATTR Value 499 > SYMBOL cap 480 320 R0 > WINDOW 3 31 47 Left 0 > SYMATTR InstName C2 > SYMATTR Value 10� > SYMBOL schottky 256 128 R270 > WINDOW 0 32 32 VTop 0 > WINDOW 3 0 32 VBottom 0 > SYMATTR InstName D3 > SYMATTR Value 1N5818 > SYMATTR Description Diode > SYMATTR Type diode > SYMBOL cap 544 192 R0 > SYMATTR InstName C1 > SYMATTR Value 220n > TEXT 272 40 Left 0 !K1 L1 L2 1 > TEXT -96 408 Left 0 !.tran 2m startup > > > > |