Reverse or inverse ARP from windows/linux - no way (!?!?)
in [Design]
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From: Philip Paeps on 29 Mar 2010 05:15 JosephKK <quiettechblue(a)yahoo.com> wrote: > On Sun, 28 Mar 2010 19:07:27 -0700 (PDT), Didi <dp(a)tgi-sci.com> wrote: >>On Mar 29, 4:00 am, "markp" <map.nos...(a)f2s.com> wrote: >>> > I think I got to the bottom of it - why this is impossible under >>> > windows, that is. >>> > I had posted the same question in a local (Bulgarian) forum, and today >>> > a guy replied and posted this pointer: >>> > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Raw_socket >>> >>> Raw sockets is the ability to bypass the encapsulation of the lower level >>> OS. All you need to do is send a legitimate UDP broadcast 'enquire' packet >>> and receive uni-cast replies, I can't see why you would want to create your >>> own raw packets and why you can't just use the OS to encapsulate your data >>> normally (?) >>> >>> Mark. >> >>So how do you send an ARP packet via UDP? (FYI: ARP is lower level >>than UDP). >> >>Dimiter > > APR lower level than UDP? I don't think so. Same level at best, below UDP > is MAC and PHY only. And where does IP go in your world? - PhiliP -- Philip Paeps Please don't email any replies philip(a)paeps.cx I follow the newsgroup.
From: Didi on 29 Mar 2010 05:19 On Mar 29, 7:37 am, "JosephKK"<quiettechb...(a)yahoo.com> wrote: > On Sun, 28 Mar 2010 19:07:27 -0700 (PDT), Didi <d...(a)tgi-sci.com> wrote: > >On Mar 29, 4:00 am, "markp" <map.nos...(a)f2s.com> wrote: > >> > I think I got to the bottom of it - why this is impossible under > >> > windows, that is. > >> > I had posted the same question in a local (Bulgarian) forum, and today > >> > a guy replied and posted this pointer: > >> > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Raw_socket > > >> Raw sockets is the ability to bypass the encapsulation of the lower level > >> OS. All you need to do is send a legitimate UDP broadcast 'enquire' packet > >> and receive uni-cast replies, I can't see why you would want to create your > >> own raw packets and why you can't just use the OS to encapsulate your data > >> normally (?) > > >> Mark. > > >So how do you send an ARP packet via UDP? (FYI: ARP is lower level > >than UDP). > > >Dimiter > > APR lower level than UDP? I don't think so. Same level at best, below UDP > is MAC and PHY only. Uhm, not so sure. Same level as UDP in that they both have the Ethernet protocol type set to "internet", perhaps; but the data inside a UDP packet are encapsulated into that level, whereas the ARP data are purely Ethernet encapsulated. This should put it one level lower - at least unofficially? Dimiter
From: Didi on 29 Mar 2010 05:26 On Mar 29, 5:23 am, "markp" <map.nos...(a)f2s.com> wrote: > "Didi" <d...(a)tgi-sci.com> wrote in message > > news:c89e214e-efb8-43f5-b877-be5dc44378ee(a)i25g2000yqm.googlegroups.com... > On Mar 29, 4:00 am, "markp" <map.nos...(a)f2s.com> wrote: > > > > > > I think I got to the bottom of it - why this is impossible under > > > windows, that is. > > > I had posted the same question in a local (Bulgarian) forum, and today > > > a guy replied and posted this pointer: > > >http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Raw_socket > > >> Raw sockets is the ability to bypass the encapsulation of the lower level > >> OS. All you need to do is send a legitimate UDP broadcast 'enquire' > >> packet > >> and receive uni-cast replies, I can't see why you would want to create > >> your > >> own raw packets and why you can't just use the OS to encapsulate your > >> data > >> normally (?) > > >> Mark. > > So how do you send an ARP packet via UDP? (FYI: ARP is lower level > >than UDP). > > Dimiter > > I may have got this wrong, but I thought you wanted to find the address of a > newly connected web-server on a local network and be able to configure a > browser to access it. No no, you are correct on that. I was just looking for some readily available utility, I avoid wintel programming like the plague, just the thought of their APIs etc. stuff makes me sick. > In which case all that is needed is to do is run a > small utility on the browser PC that sends a UDP broadcast packet, the data > portion of which contains the PC's IP address. That "angry IP scanner" I found is doing something similar (uses ICMP echo) and does the job for small networks. For large ones it will be less practical to manually dig through a huge list, though... Dimiter
From: Didi on 29 Mar 2010 05:31 On Mar 29, 12:19 pm, Didi <d...(a)tgi-sci.com> wrote: > On Mar 29, 7:37 am, "JosephKK"<quiettechb...(a)yahoo.com> wrote: > > > > > On Sun, 28 Mar 2010 19:07:27 -0700 (PDT), Didi <d...(a)tgi-sci.com> wrote: > > >On Mar 29, 4:00 am, "markp" <map.nos...(a)f2s.com> wrote: > > >> > I think I got to the bottom of it - why this is impossible under > > >> > windows, that is. > > >> > I had posted the same question in a local (Bulgarian) forum, and today > > >> > a guy replied and posted this pointer: > > >> > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Raw_socket > > > >> Raw sockets is the ability to bypass the encapsulation of the lower level > > >> OS. All you need to do is send a legitimate UDP broadcast 'enquire' packet > > >> and receive uni-cast replies, I can't see why you would want to create your > > >> own raw packets and why you can't just use the OS to encapsulate your data > > >> normally (?) > > > >> Mark. > > > >So how do you send an ARP packet via UDP? (FYI: ARP is lower level > > >than UDP). > > > >Dimiter > > > APR lower level than UDP? I don't think so. Same level at best, below UDP > > is MAC and PHY only. > > Uhm, not so sure. Same level as UDP in that they both have the > Ethernet > protocol type set to "internet", perhaps; but the data inside a UDP > packet > are encapsulated into that level, whereas the ARP data are purely > Ethernet > encapsulated. This should put it one level lower - at least > unofficially? > > Dimiter Or may be I forgot that, $806 was ARP and $800 was internet so may be they are officially different - Oh no, I may be dealing with their hex dumps and I may have implemented them but I really would not argue about the official side of things :-) . I know my stack handles the ARP packets at the same level as IP packets, UDP is one level "higher". Dimiter
From: markp on 29 Mar 2010 06:53
<snip> >> I may have got this wrong, but I thought you wanted to find the address >> of a >> newly connected web-server on a local network and be able to configure a >> browser to access it. > No no, you are correct on that. I was just looking for some readily >available utility, I avoid wintel programming like the plague, just >the thought of their APIs etc. stuff makes me sick. >> In which case all that is needed is to do is run a >> small utility on the browser PC that sends a UDP broadcast packet, the >> data >> portion of which contains the PC's IP address. >That "angry IP scanner" I found is doing something similar (uses ICMP >echo) and does the job for small networks. For large ones it will be >less practical to manually dig through a huge list, though... >Dimiter Ahha, you're after some already existing software to map MAC addresses to IP addresses. If you open a command box in XP and type 'arp -a' you get a list of MAC addresses and their associated IP addresses. Is that what you want? you could easily write a batch file to scan for a given MAC address or dump to a file to search. Mark. |