From: Clark F Morris on
On Sat, 28 Jun 2008 19:28:32 +1200, "Pete Dashwood"
<dashwood(a)removethis.enternet.co.nz> wrote:

>
>
>"Robert" <no(a)e.mail> wrote in message
>news:vlab645g2aa2idppk6r0n6o3qhsv4nlnk3(a)4ax.com...
>> much snipped
>>
>> The words change, but the melody remains the same. It's old wine in new
>> bottles.
>
>There is some truth in what you say, insofar as things have been
>consistently overhyped throughout the latter part of the 20th century. But
>lessons are being learned. Last week MicroSoft only paid $100 million for a
>new "natural language" search technology; a few years back during the dot
>com boom, a lesser technology in the same field sold for over $500 million.
>The lower price reflects the fact that overhyped claims about natural
>language processing have been around for years. This time I believe they
>have a bargain.
>
>Just like you, and having been a programmer all of my working career, I am
>also cynical about lurid claims for software. But I do believe stuff I have
>seen and used myself.
>
>Drag and drop tools like Visual Studio increase productivity (well, MY
>productivity, anyway...:-)) many fold. Other visual tools like Iron Speed
>and Stimulsoft make Web sites and reports a matter of minutes, rather than
>days. Software and tools ARE getting better, more powerful and smarter than
>ever before and this trend looks like continuing. Smart scripting languages
>like Ruby, PHP, and Python are bringing quick builds of shared applications
>within reach of non-specialist people. Frameworks like Rails for Ruby, .Net
>(MicroSoft), Mono (Open Source), and Prototype (JavaScript) are providing
>tens of thousands of packaged components that can be accessed with a mouse
>click. People are building with Lego instead of with daub and what they are
>building is ready much quicker and is more structurally sound. More
>importantly, it can be easily disassembled and reassembled differently if
>needed...
>
>I'm currently working in a mixed COBOL / C# environment building some tools
>for a client. Every day I kind of dread moving to the COBOL machine and
>carving out code with the prehistoric IDE provided by Fujitsu and having to
>test and debug thousands of lines of procedural code. Yet there was a time
>(not so long ago...) when I did this quite happily. I'm even irritated at
>having to go back into that environment to check and test procedural COBOL
>generated by my own C# toolset... it is tiresome, boring and tedious. I'll
>be glad when I've finished it and can get back to the much more interesting
>task of expanding my horizons with LINQ and the finer details of C#...:-)
>
>The point I'm trying to make is that if you had asked me say, 10 years ago,
>if I would be unhappy writing COBOL, I would never have imagined that could
>happen. Since then, I have visited new worlds and found them to be
>good...:-)

How much of this is that the providers of COBOL (PL1, etc.) have not
upgraded their development environments? When I read about what you
have available in Visual Studio with C#, I am envious. I believe that
IBM is doing the same sort of thing with Websphere only at a cost that
requires management approvals and research. As a member of the SHARE
Guide Language Futures Task Force I can say that the environment you
describe is what we believed was necessary. What you describe makes
Endeavor (a source and object program control management system) look
amateurish.
>
>Despite all the hype we've had over decades about future tools, there is
>real evidence here and now, that at least some of these tools are delivering
>what they promised.
>
>
>> rest snipped
>
>Pete.