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From: John H Meyers on 3 Jan 2010 03:08
On Sat, 02 Jan 2010 23:53:28 -0600:

[re keeping size of "system" mailboxes reasonable]

> You say "minimum", but minimum is zero.

For other examples of things taken slightly too far, see:
http://monologues.co.uk/Bob_Newhart/Driving_Instructor.htm

Which comes from:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Button-Down_Mind_of_Bob_Newhart
http://trashcars.net/videos/223/bob-newhart-driving-instructor.html

> Is it recommended that absolutely everything be sent to another mailbox?

Some people use filters to actually do that, automatically!

But then the problem simply shifts to the mailboxes to which messages
were automatically transferred, and those have no automatic backups
when they get "compacted" ;-)

--
From: John H Meyers on 9 Jan 2010 13:40
On Fri, 08 Jan 2010 20:27:07 -0600, Dennis Lee Bieber wrote:

[good stuff about using an "Inbox" and "Outbox"
as "work in progress" (temporary) rather than a permanent archive]

> If I ever get the incentive to call Earthlink about a new DSL modem,
> since the 3rd party modem I'm using seems to be blocked from POP3 access
> requiring me to use Dial up to fetch mail...

I've never heard of a DSL that could work at all, yet not work with POP!

Does "3rd party modem" mean something incompatible with Earthlink,
rather than somehow incompatible with a much higher level protocol
than "link" level? Does it have port settings, like a router or firewall?

I've seen some ISPs announcing the end of their dial-up service,
which is too bad -- it seems to be comparable to ending broadcast TV,
so that everyone will need to enrich a cable company at much higher fees :)

--
From: John H Meyers on 9 Jan 2010 13:46
> so that everyone will need to enrich a cable company at much higher fees :)

Should say "cable or satellite company"

However, provided you have already enriched some high-speed internet ISP,
it seems that you can get TV (and even good old radio) over the internet,
which apparently is causing any "TV-only" service companies some concern,
in the eternal jockeying to try to dominate the market for access.

--
From: mm on 11 Jan 2010 02:12
On Fri, 08 Jan 2010 18:27:07 -0800, Dennis Lee Bieber
<wlfraed(a)ix.netcom.com> wrote:

>On Sun, 03 Jan 2010 00:53:28 -0500, mm <NOPSAMmm2005(a)bigfoot.com>
>declaimed the following in comp.mail.eudora.ms-windows:
>
>>
>> Is it recommended that absolutely everything be sent to another
>> mailbox? I've never heard that, and I've read the manual and hundreds
>> of posts in this ng. And I've never heard of anyone who does that.
>> You say "minimum", but minimum is zero. Yet how is one to know which
>> messages one wants to keep until he has read them. How is he to know
>> which mailbox to send them to until he has found out what they are
>> about.
>>
>> This sounds like a recipe for losing email. It sounds like they did
>> inadequate testing under adverse conditions or they would have noticed
>> that email is lost when the system crashes.
>>
>> Why is there an inbox at all if everything has to be sent to another
>> mailbox?
>
> Look at the IN and OUT boxes in light of an old fashioned office
>tray...
>
> INbox is stuff that has not been looked at yet -- a "to do" stack...
>One would take an item out of the box, examine it, maybe create a reply
>which would be put in the OUTbox, and then either trash the message, or
>put it into a file folder in some filing cabinet.

I like your analogy, but I don't think it solves the probelem I had,
that I lost new email during a crash, because no matter how little
time email stays in the inbox, if it is there at all, for however
little time, and if recently added email can be lost in a crash during
that time, there is a big problem.

But please see my next post, in reply to an earlier post by you or
maybe me in this thread.

It's late though and I think I won't be able to write it tonight

> The OUTbox periodically gets emptied as the replies are sent out to
>the mail system. New messages periodically appear in the INbox. One does
>NOT take a message from the INbox, write a reply, and then put the
>message BACK into the INbox.
>
> I have filters configured to distribute stuff to 8 specific mail
>files (mostly based upon the email address that the mail was sent too [I
>have four separate POP3 email addresses, and about two email addresses
>which forward mail to the primary POP3 -- the filters also set
>personalities for those forwarded items), followed by if it came from a
>mailing list of sorts). The ONLY mail that stays in my IN box is stuff
>that is "stray" -- and that is mostly me sending URLs found while at
>work to my home address, along with some near spam items (reminders from
>Amazon, drugstore.com, etc.) which wouldn't be a great loss.
>
> Even the stuff filtered to those 8 files doesn't stay there -- they
>either get deleted after being read, or dragged to specific archive
>files. That also gets done to anything left in the IN box -- I'll either
>delete or archive them. My IN box rarely has over 10 messages left from
>day to day.
>
> And for the OUT box... Similar... (If I ever get the incentive to
>call Earthlink about a new DSL modem, since the 3rd party modem I'm
>using seems to be blocked from POP3 access requiring me to use Dial up
>to fetch mail) I'd run Eudora on a 30minute check schedule, with "send
>on check" -- so the most that could be lost in a crash is the last 30
>minutes of replies. Messages that have been sent get filtered to -- you
>got it -- another archive file.

From: mm on 11 Jan 2010 02:28
On Sun, 03 Jan 2010 00:53:28 -0500, mm <NOPSAMmm2005(a)bigfoot.com>
wrote:

>On Fri, 01 Jan 2010 14:35:04 -0500, Dennis Lee Bieber
><wlfraed(a)ix.netcom.com> wrote:
>
>>On Mon, 28 Dec 2009 17:02:47 -0500, mm <NOPSAMmm2005(a)bigfoot.com> wrote:
>>
>>> And that happened once too. I had just dl'd the mail and looked at
>>> one email when my computer craashed, and somehow when I restarted it,
>>> all my email was there except the several emails I had just gotten.
>>> This was with Eudora, some previous version many years ago. I don't
>>> understant how that could happen, since I was able to read one of the
>>> emails, but it did, and I don't want it to happen again. (I don't
>>> know what info I lost, and I hadn't read completely the one I started
>>> to read.)
>>>
>> The In/Out/Trash boxes are kept in RAM during a session and only
>>update to disk on exit of the program. So, anything that had been
>>downloaded and not moved to some other storage area would have been
>>memory-only. Crash.. Next start-up Eudora sees the In/Out/Trash boxes
>>that had been in use the previous time the program had been started
>>(deleted messages that hadn't been flushed to disk, etc.).
>
>This would certainly account for it.

I was rash when I wrote my answer that I'm revising now.

On second thought, this this would indeed account for lost eamil
during a crash, but it doesn't conform to what I've experienced in
loads of other crashes, freezes followed by hard restarts (pressing
the restart button that is found on most PC's), or power failures (I
think I've only had one in the last 10 years when I didn't also have a
UPS to keep the computer from crashing, but I may have had others
maybe 15 years ago.)

In all those cases except one I've never lost any email from my inbox
or my outbox. I've had Eudora sessions lasting 4 to 12 hours, maybe
even 24 hours, followed by a crash or freeze, when loads of email has
come in during the session, and several emails, pending and sent, have
newly resided in my outbox. Never have I been missing even one of
them, and I would have noticed most of the times.

What this must mean is that your paragraph above could not be
accurate.

Repeated from above:

>> The In/Out/Trash boxes are kept in RAM during a session and only
>>update to disk on exit of the program.

It couldn't *only* update the harddisk on exit of the program. Those
mailboxes may well be in RAM but they must update the harddrive
according to some other rule.***

>> So, anything that had been
>>downloaded and not moved to some other storage area would have been
>>memory-only. Crash.. Next start-up Eudora sees the In/Out/Trash boxes
>>that had been in use the previous time the program had been started
>>(deleted messages that hadn't been flushed to disk, etc.).

This has never happened except that once.

So afaic, we still haven't accounted for that one time.

So I'm going to continue to keep all incoming email on the server for
one or two days (and lengthen that on occasion, like when I'm having
problems).

And I advise everyone else to do the same thing. All the moreso if
the 7 lines quoted just above are true.


***The crash where I lost an email was 10 to 15 years ago. I don't
remember what version of eudora I was using then, but I've had many
(30 or maybe 50 or 80**) crashes and freezes with Eudora 7.0.1, while
using win98SE. I've only been using XP for 4 months total, and I
don't think I've had a crash yet.

**Crashes and freezes used to really bother me, but now that I always
save what I'm writing frequently and before leaving a window, I never
lose more than a couple lines. I've only had one in the last 9 months
where I had to work to recreate what I'd lost. (Now that I'm in XP, I
expect things will be much better still. It seems so.)


MM Remove nopsam if emailing.



>> This is why it has always been recommended that the In/Out boxes
>>should be kept trimmed to a minimum -- any messages you want to keep
>>should be filtered to other boxes that you created, as those are always
>>disk-based.
>
>Is it recommended that absolutely everything be sent to another
>mailbox? I've never heard that, and I've read the manual and hundreds
>of posts in this ng. And I've never heard of anyone who does that.
>You say "minimum", but minimum is zero. Yet how is one to know which
>messages one wants to keep until he has read them. How is he to know
>which mailbox to send them to until he has found out what they are
>about.
>
>This sounds like a recipe for losing email. It sounds like they did
>inadequate testing under adverse conditions or they would have noticed
>that email is lost when the system crashes.
>
>Why is there an inbox at all if everything has to be sent to another
>mailbox?

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