Set Theory, Anyone?
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From: Jack Wellington on 5 Dec 2009 15:59 > > If asked, I would say someone helped me with the assignment. > > But you weren't looking for someone to "help you" with the assignment. > You were looking for someone to give you the *answers*. Can you truly > not tell the difference between "someone helped me with it" and > "someone did it for me"? The operative word being "weren't". Notice how I accepted the other poster's attempt at helping me and did the best I could with what he gave me. And yes to the latter question. If someone gave me the answers, I would say I got the answers from the internet. If I received help, I would say so. > > If not, I would say nothing. > > Do you know the meaning of "plagiarism"? Yes, but it's unimportant in this case. > > >In this situation, it is unimportant, for reasons > > already explained. > > Being factored into the grade is not the only thing that is important. > If you misrepresent the work of others as your own, it *is* important, > whether you are being graded or not. It is a sad commentary on your > utter lack of ethics and character that you do not realize this. The point I was trying to establish with the whole "not being asked" thing was that if I was not asked about the work (which is a possibility), I would not even have to present it to him in the first place. Regardless, I would still give credit where credit's due, meaning not to myself.
From: Jack Wellington on 5 Dec 2009 16:08 On Dec 5, 3:09 pm, Arturo Magidin <magi...(a)member.ams.org> wrote: > On Dec 5, 1:36 am, Jack Wellington <jack.wellingt...(a)gmail.com> wrote: > > > As a political science major award- > > winning debater, > > Then stop taking math; and it's now obvious why you are unethical and > lazy. Must be a plus in your intended profession, alas. In the > meanwhile, go bagpipe yourself. > Have you ever heard of "required classes"? And I don't know what you like to do in your spare time (nor do I apparently want to), but I personally don't think I'd get a kick out of something that disgusting. Why resort to desperation and vulgarity in your half- witted retorts? Your hypocrisy as one who claims to be "ethical" is duly noted; I'm sure if you were half as righteous as you claim to be, you would not approve of anyone using such disgusting language. Yet you reserve some of those false judgments for yourself, and are hypocritical even of your own tact. I may not be a mathematician (as I've already admitted), but I am a human being, and have opinions and priorities and ideas and values of my own. Open your eyes.
From: Jack Wellington on 5 Dec 2009 16:34 On Dec 5, 3:27 pm, Arturo Magidin <magi...(a)member.ams.org> wrote: > By lying, and hoping to take advantage of others. You are not being > more accurate, you are trying to hide your actions behind fancier > words. > By reiterating my prior statement, I was being more accurate. The prior was far too general to accurately describe the specific situation. > > > We've established that. Your value cheating and lying, and blaming > others. Not necessarily. I don't value cheating. Since your concept of cheating apparently extends to that which may not even be seen or asked about by my professor, then apparently I'm guilty of it. It's not like I'm proud of it though. As a matter of fact I don't think twice about it, because it's so unimportant. If I cheated on a test, something that matters, I'd be ashamed of myself because that is unethical, which is why I don't do it. Besides, I don't think my professor would appreciate it if I stood up in class and shouted, "I CHEATED ON THE ASSIGNMENT YOU'RE NOT GRADING!!!". It would be a waste of everyone's time, and he'd just tell me to sit down. Nothing else would happen differently than if I was silent. Therefore, as a service to others and myself, I'd stick to silence if not asked about the paper. Aren't you math guys supposed to understand logic and reason? > Stay down in the mud, where you are clearly comfortable. > The real world is not such a glamorous place. It lacks the fruits of your fantasy world in the sky. > > > By the by, dear: expecting people to do their own work is hardly > > > "elitist" or "self-exalted". > > > But being an arrogant judgmental snob who sees only their own > > arguments and justifies them on false premises is completely so. > > I wouldn't know; but apparently, you do. Yeah, because I'm typing to someone guilty of the above. Ignorance is bliss. But if you ever do want to know, just look at yourself. > > > You just *choose* to be a hypocrite, then? Not at all. I was asked to clarify my situation, and so I did. I also was recommended to ask for help over answers, so I did. It's not being hypocritical - I merely asked for something different. I didn't retract any prior statements (minus one), nor did I change principle. You on the other hand... > > >I just need to clarify for > > those unaccustomed to reading words with the thoroughness they > > deserve. > > You really are rather laughable, dear boy. You hope that people will > do your work for you, think nothing of cheating and lying and taking > advantage of others, but you presume of your ethics. And you > acknowledge that you do not pay attention in class, or to the > textbook but complain that people do not read words "with the > thoroughness they deserve." Perhaps you should realize that nobody can > read your mind, and that if you continue to change your story every > other post, then it is rather pathetic for you to complain that people > are "misrepresenting" what you said. > I didn't change a thing. Just elaborated. If you read my statements holistically, they make sense. But you didn't. Sure I did hope people would do the work for me when I asked for it, but when I was told to ask for help instead and did so, I was both willing and preferring to work with that. In order for you to understand my position, you'd have had to have read it holistically, like Ostap did. If you would just do that instead of picking and choosing at only that which proves your point, then there would be no misrepresentation of my opinions. > But do continue to blame everyone but yourself for your failures. I'm > sure it will go over quite well when you go on in political science. > In the meantime, stop taking courses that require you to pay > attention, think, or do your own work, since you are either incapable > or unwilling to do any of them. > First of all, I haven't failed to do anything but understand the content of this handout, and probably most of the course. The former is the fault of the author for making the questions of the text so ambiguous, my lack of understanding of set theory is the fault of my professor and myself for not getting supplementary material from the library or for asking others for help. I tried the latter last night, and got the input I was looking for, which helped affirm that I am not quite as far behind in understanding the material as I thought. As stated, the questions were "impressively trivial" with the information I was given, which is what I posted here. Classes geared towards my major require attention and one's own work as well. Math isn't the only thing in the world which requires thought. And yes, I am both willing and capable, and I do every day. I would drop the class if I could, but as I said, it's *required*. Don't presume to know others when you clearly do not, especially if you are going to judge them on the basis of your selective "holier than thou" hypocrisies. It just reveals how narrow-minded and spiteful you can be.
From: Arturo Magidin on 5 Dec 2009 16:40 On Dec 5, 2:59 pm, Jack Wellington <jack.wellingt...(a)gmail.com> wrote: > > > If asked, I would say someone helped me with the assignment. > > > But you weren't looking for someone to "help you" with the assignment. > > You were looking for someone to give you the *answers*. Can you truly > > not tell the difference between "someone helped me with it" and > > "someone did it for me"? > > The operative word being "weren't". Notice how I accepted the other > poster's attempt at helping me and did the best I could with what he > gave me. And yes to the latter question. It's funny that you would say that, given your complaints that I don't pay attention to your words... If the answer to "Can you truly not tell the difference between "someone helped with it" and "someone did it for me"?" is "yes", that means that you are in fact not able to tell the difference. > If someone gave me the > answers, I would say I got the answers from the internet. If I > received help, I would say so. > > > > If not, I would say nothing. > > > Do you know the meaning of "plagiarism"? > > Yes, but it's unimportant in this case. How so? Presenting other people's work as your own is plagiarism; does your university have an honor code? > > >In this situation, it is unimportant, for reasons > > > already explained. > > > Being factored into the grade is not the only thing that is important. > > If you misrepresent the work of others as your own, it *is* important, > > whether you are being graded or not. It is a sad commentary on your > > utter lack of ethics and character that you do not realize this. > > The point I was trying to establish with the whole "not being asked" > thing was that if I was not asked about the work (which is a > possibility), I would not even have to present it to him in the first > place. Regardless, I would still give credit where credit's due, > meaning not to myself. Pull the other one; it's got bells on. -- Arturo Magidin
From: Arturo Magidin on 5 Dec 2009 16:42
On Dec 5, 2:49 pm, Jack Wellington <jack.wellingt...(a)gmail.com> wrote: > On Dec 5, 2:51 pm, Arturo Magidin <magi...(a)member.ams.org> wrote: > > > On Dec 5, 1:45 am, Jack Wellington <jack.wellingt...(a)gmail.com> wrote: > > > > Great, now I have to counter all your non-math points... =P > > > > On Dec 5, 12:15 am, Jack Wellington <jack.wellingt...(a)gmail.com> > > > wrote: > > > > > Let me ask you this: What the hell school deadline do I have to meet > > > > at 12:00 AM? > > > > Have you never heard of on-line submissions? > > > > --- Yes, and most universities don't use them. Especially for this > > > stuff. > > > And you know this from vast personal experience? The same personal > > experience that tells you that when it is midnight where you are, it > > is also midnight *everywhere in the world*? > > /I know this based on common class structures. On "common class structures" *where*? > I wasn't implying that > it was midnight everywhere in the world (obviously it wasn't). No, you were just implying that anyone who thought you had a deadline near midnight was clearly not thinking all that much about it; how would they know it was midnight? > That's why I was telling you. You weren't "telling". > > > > > > As to being rude, your entire attitude is an insult, dear. That is why > > > you are getting told off, and not merely ignored. > > > > --- Your attitude is one of snobby discontent. > > > Your lazy, uninformed, and worthless opinion is duly noted. > > It's actually quite worthwhile and informed. Obviously, *you* think so. If you ever find someone else who shares that evaluation with you, hang on to them. Meanwhile, you saying so doesn't make it so. -- Arturo Magidin |