Simultaneity of Relativity
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From: mpc755 on 15 Oct 2009 14:07 On Oct 15, 1:20 pm, glird <gl...(a)aol.com> wrote: > On Oct 15, 12:51 pm, mpc755 wrote: > > > > > It is not a matter of if conventional wisdom >will understand aether is the medium, it is a >matter of when. > > It is also a matter of when they will understand that "the aether" > is NOT a different kind of matter than the o-called "basic particles"; > it is just a word denoting the continuity aspect of any material > field, whether or not particles are present. thus part of it. > > glird Correct. 'Matter' is just a different form of aether. 'Matter' displaces the aether which would otherwise be where the 'matter' is.
From: mpc755 on 16 Oct 2009 00:03 On Oct 15, 11:54 am, mpc755 <mpc...(a)gmail.com> wrote: > On Oct 14, 7:30 pm, mpc755 <mpc...(a)gmail.com> wrote: > > > > > On Oct 14, 6:58 pm, mpc755 <mpc...(a)gmail.com> wrote: > > > > On Oct 14, 2:56 pm, glird <gl...(a)aol.com> wrote: > > > > > On Oct 13, 7:33 pm, mpc755 wrote: > > > > > > The clocks at M and M' run at the same >rate. There is no length contraction. > > > > > That is classical physics, which is different that relativistic > > > > physics. > > > > > > The aether is stationary in the train >frame of reference and in the embankment >frame of reference. > > > > > That is futuristic physics, which is different and immensely better > > > > than classical and relativistic and any present physics. > > > > > > When the light wave from the flash at A' >reaches M the flash from the light wave at >B reaches M'. > > > > > When the light from the flashes at A and >B reach M the light from the flashes at A' >and B' reach M'. When the light from the > > > > >flash at B' reaches M, the light from the >flash at A reaches M'. > > > > > In terms of the classical physics beneath your assertions, that is > > > > incorrect. in terms of relativistic physics, it isn't applicable at > > > > all. in terms of futuristic physics, clocks AUTOMATICALLY esynch, so > > > > you are incorrect here too. > > > > > glird > > > > If the aether is stationary relative to the train in the train frame > > > of reference, and the aether is stationary relative to the embankment > > > in the embankment frame of reference. The train is stationary and the > > > embankment is stationary. There Observer at M and M' stand as close > > > together as possible and synchronize their clocks. The train is moved > > > in one direction and the embankment is moved in the other direction > > > with the same exact acceleration and then the same exact speed. The > > > train is sent towards the embankment and the embankment is sent > > > towards the train and accelerate exactly the same towards each other > > > and maintain the same exact speed when moving with constant momentum. > > > > Everything that has occurred and is occurring to the Observer at M on > > > the embankment and the Observer at M' on the train is exactly the same > > > (or more accurately in terms of direction, exactly the opposite). > > > > There is an observer on the membrane equi-distant between A and A' who > > > hits a button which allows flashes to occur at A and A' when a line > > > can be drawn perpendicular to the membrane through A, through the > > > Observer between A and A', and through A'. The light from A and A' > > > reaches the Observer on the membrane equi-distant between A and A' > > > simultaneously. The same occurs at B and B' and the Observer on the > > > membrane between B and B'. > > > > The light from A' reaches the Observer at M. > > > The light from B reaches the Observer at M'. > > > When the Observer at M and the Observer at M' check their clocks when > > > they see the flashes, their clocks say the same time. > > > > The light from A and B reaches M simultaneously. > > > The light from A' and B' reaches M' simultaneously. > > > When the Observer at M and the Observer at M' check their clocks when > > > they see the flashes, their clocks say the same time. > > > > The light from B' reaches the Observer at M. > > > The light from A reaches the Observer at M'. > > > When the Observer at M and the Observer at M' check their clocks when > > > they see the flashes, their clocks say the same time. > > > When the Observers saw each flash they determined how far away the > > source was the instant they saw the flash. The Observers factored in > > the aether was stationary relative to the other frame of reference and > > factored in the speed of light through the membrane. Both Observers > > determine the four flashes occurred at the same time. > > Einstein's Train Thought Experiment is (most likely) a physical > impossibility in nature. > > If the aether is stationary relative to the embankment and there are > lightning strikes co-located at A/A' and B/B', then the marks made by > the lightning strike at A' and B' are irrelevant in any frame of > reference. The light wave travels at 'c' from A to all destinations > and from B to all destinations. > > For the train, the light will behave according to the Fizeau and other > experiments (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fizeau_experiment) having to > do with light waves propagating through a moving medium. In Einstein's > Train Thought Experiment the aether is moving relative to the train. > If the Observer at M' on the train assumes the light traveled at 'c' > from A' and B' in this scenario, the Observer is incorrect. > > Light waves propagate at 'c' relative to the aether. The aether is not > stationary and is effected by moving objects. If a pebble is dropped into the center of a pool on a train, the wave the pebbles creates propagates outward at the same speed in all directions from the center of the pool. The wave the pebble creates propagates outward at the same speed in all directions from where it was dropped in the train frame of reference. If the water is now stationary relative to the embankment, then the wave the pebble creates propagates outward at the same speed in all directions from where it was dropped in the embankment frame of reference. The wave the pebble creates propagates outward relative to the water it exists in. The wave the flash creates propagates outward relative to the aether it exists in. A light wave travels at 'c' relative to the aether. And that includes the bending of light around massive objects. The light travels relative to the aether displaced by massive objects.
From: mpc755 on 16 Oct 2009 00:05 On Oct 15, 11:54 am, mpc755 <mpc...(a)gmail.com> wrote: > On Oct 14, 7:30 pm, mpc755 <mpc...(a)gmail.com> wrote: > > > > > On Oct 14, 6:58 pm, mpc755 <mpc...(a)gmail.com> wrote: > > > > On Oct 14, 2:56 pm, glird <gl...(a)aol.com> wrote: > > > > > On Oct 13, 7:33 pm, mpc755 wrote: > > > > > > The clocks at M and M' run at the same >rate. There is no length contraction. > > > > > That is classical physics, which is different that relativistic > > > > physics. > > > > > > The aether is stationary in the train >frame of reference and in the embankment >frame of reference. > > > > > That is futuristic physics, which is different and immensely better > > > > than classical and relativistic and any present physics. > > > > > > When the light wave from the flash at A' >reaches M the flash from the light wave at >B reaches M'. > > > > > When the light from the flashes at A and >B reach M the light from the flashes at A' >and B' reach M'. When the light from the > > > > >flash at B' reaches M, the light from the >flash at A reaches M'. > > > > > In terms of the classical physics beneath your assertions, that is > > > > incorrect. in terms of relativistic physics, it isn't applicable at > > > > all. in terms of futuristic physics, clocks AUTOMATICALLY esynch, so > > > > you are incorrect here too. > > > > > glird > > > > If the aether is stationary relative to the train in the train frame > > > of reference, and the aether is stationary relative to the embankment > > > in the embankment frame of reference. The train is stationary and the > > > embankment is stationary. There Observer at M and M' stand as close > > > together as possible and synchronize their clocks. The train is moved > > > in one direction and the embankment is moved in the other direction > > > with the same exact acceleration and then the same exact speed. The > > > train is sent towards the embankment and the embankment is sent > > > towards the train and accelerate exactly the same towards each other > > > and maintain the same exact speed when moving with constant momentum. > > > > Everything that has occurred and is occurring to the Observer at M on > > > the embankment and the Observer at M' on the train is exactly the same > > > (or more accurately in terms of direction, exactly the opposite). > > > > There is an observer on the membrane equi-distant between A and A' who > > > hits a button which allows flashes to occur at A and A' when a line > > > can be drawn perpendicular to the membrane through A, through the > > > Observer between A and A', and through A'. The light from A and A' > > > reaches the Observer on the membrane equi-distant between A and A' > > > simultaneously. The same occurs at B and B' and the Observer on the > > > membrane between B and B'. > > > > The light from A' reaches the Observer at M. > > > The light from B reaches the Observer at M'. > > > When the Observer at M and the Observer at M' check their clocks when > > > they see the flashes, their clocks say the same time. > > > > The light from A and B reaches M simultaneously. > > > The light from A' and B' reaches M' simultaneously. > > > When the Observer at M and the Observer at M' check their clocks when > > > they see the flashes, their clocks say the same time. > > > > The light from B' reaches the Observer at M. > > > The light from A reaches the Observer at M'. > > > When the Observer at M and the Observer at M' check their clocks when > > > they see the flashes, their clocks say the same time. > > > When the Observers saw each flash they determined how far away the > > source was the instant they saw the flash. The Observers factored in > > the aether was stationary relative to the other frame of reference and > > factored in the speed of light through the membrane. Both Observers > > determine the four flashes occurred at the same time. > > Einstein's Train Thought Experiment is (most likely) a physical > impossibility in nature. > > If the aether is stationary relative to the embankment and there are > lightning strikes co-located at A/A' and B/B', then the marks made by > the lightning strike at A' and B' are irrelevant in any frame of > reference. The light wave travels at 'c' from A to all destinations > and from B to all destinations. > > For the train, the light will behave according to the Fizeau and other > experiments (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fizeau_experiment) having to > do with light waves propagating through a moving medium. In Einstein's > Train Thought Experiment the aether is moving relative to the train. > If the Observer at M' on the train assumes the light traveled at 'c' > from A' and B' in this scenario, the Observer is incorrect. > > Light waves propagate at 'c' relative to the aether. The aether is not > stationary and is effected by moving objects. If a pebble is dropped into the center of a pool on a train, the wave the pebbles creates propagates outward at the same speed in all directions from the center of the pool. The wave the pebble creates propagates outward at the same speed in all directions from where it was dropped in the train frame of reference. If the water is now stationary relative to the embankment, then the wave the pebble creates propagates outward at the same speed in all directions from where it was dropped in the embankment frame of reference. The wave the pebble creates propagates outward relative to the water it exists in. The wave the flash creates propagates outward relative to the aether it exists in. A light wave travels at 'c' relative to the aether. And that includes the bending of light around massive objects. Light travels relative to the aether displaced by massive objects.
From: mpc755 on 16 Oct 2009 00:06 On Oct 15, 11:54 am, mpc755 <mpc...(a)gmail.com> wrote: > On Oct 14, 7:30 pm, mpc755 <mpc...(a)gmail.com> wrote: > > > > > On Oct 14, 6:58 pm, mpc755 <mpc...(a)gmail.com> wrote: > > > > On Oct 14, 2:56 pm, glird <gl...(a)aol.com> wrote: > > > > > On Oct 13, 7:33 pm, mpc755 wrote: > > > > > > The clocks at M and M' run at the same >rate. There is no length contraction. > > > > > That is classical physics, which is different that relativistic > > > > physics. > > > > > > The aether is stationary in the train >frame of reference and in the embankment >frame of reference. > > > > > That is futuristic physics, which is different and immensely better > > > > than classical and relativistic and any present physics. > > > > > > When the light wave from the flash at A' >reaches M the flash from the light wave at >B reaches M'. > > > > > When the light from the flashes at A and >B reach M the light from the flashes at A' >and B' reach M'. When the light from the > > > > >flash at B' reaches M, the light from the >flash at A reaches M'. > > > > > In terms of the classical physics beneath your assertions, that is > > > > incorrect. in terms of relativistic physics, it isn't applicable at > > > > all. in terms of futuristic physics, clocks AUTOMATICALLY esynch, so > > > > you are incorrect here too. > > > > > glird > > > > If the aether is stationary relative to the train in the train frame > > > of reference, and the aether is stationary relative to the embankment > > > in the embankment frame of reference. The train is stationary and the > > > embankment is stationary. There Observer at M and M' stand as close > > > together as possible and synchronize their clocks. The train is moved > > > in one direction and the embankment is moved in the other direction > > > with the same exact acceleration and then the same exact speed. The > > > train is sent towards the embankment and the embankment is sent > > > towards the train and accelerate exactly the same towards each other > > > and maintain the same exact speed when moving with constant momentum. > > > > Everything that has occurred and is occurring to the Observer at M on > > > the embankment and the Observer at M' on the train is exactly the same > > > (or more accurately in terms of direction, exactly the opposite). > > > > There is an observer on the membrane equi-distant between A and A' who > > > hits a button which allows flashes to occur at A and A' when a line > > > can be drawn perpendicular to the membrane through A, through the > > > Observer between A and A', and through A'. The light from A and A' > > > reaches the Observer on the membrane equi-distant between A and A' > > > simultaneously. The same occurs at B and B' and the Observer on the > > > membrane between B and B'. > > > > The light from A' reaches the Observer at M. > > > The light from B reaches the Observer at M'. > > > When the Observer at M and the Observer at M' check their clocks when > > > they see the flashes, their clocks say the same time. > > > > The light from A and B reaches M simultaneously. > > > The light from A' and B' reaches M' simultaneously. > > > When the Observer at M and the Observer at M' check their clocks when > > > they see the flashes, their clocks say the same time. > > > > The light from B' reaches the Observer at M. > > > The light from A reaches the Observer at M'. > > > When the Observer at M and the Observer at M' check their clocks when > > > they see the flashes, their clocks say the same time. > > > When the Observers saw each flash they determined how far away the > > source was the instant they saw the flash. The Observers factored in > > the aether was stationary relative to the other frame of reference and > > factored in the speed of light through the membrane. Both Observers > > determine the four flashes occurred at the same time. > > Einstein's Train Thought Experiment is (most likely) a physical > impossibility in nature. > > If the aether is stationary relative to the embankment and there are > lightning strikes co-located at A/A' and B/B', then the marks made by > the lightning strike at A' and B' are irrelevant in any frame of > reference. The light wave travels at 'c' from A to all destinations > and from B to all destinations. > > For the train, the light will behave according to the Fizeau and other > experiments (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fizeau_experiment) having to > do with light waves propagating through a moving medium. In Einstein's > Train Thought Experiment the aether is moving relative to the train. > If the Observer at M' on the train assumes the light traveled at 'c' > from A' and B' in this scenario, the Observer is incorrect. > > Light waves propagate at 'c' relative to the aether. The aether is not > stationary and is effected by moving objects. If a pebble is dropped into the center of a pool on a train, the wave the pebble creates propagates outward at the same speed in all directions from the center of the pool. The wave the pebble creates propagates outward at the same speed in all directions from where it was dropped in the train frame of reference. If the water is now stationary relative to the embankment, then the wave the pebble creates propagates outward at the same speed in all directions from where it was dropped in the embankment frame of reference. The wave the pebble creates propagates outward relative to the water it exists in. The wave the flash creates propagates outward relative to the aether it exists in. A light wave travels at 'c' relative to the aether. And that includes the bending of light around massive objects. Light travels relative to the aether displaced by massive objects.
From: glird on 17 Oct 2009 11:47
On Oct 16, 12:06 am, mpc755 wrote: > ><A light wave travels at 'c' relative to the aether. > Given that "the aether' (or "ether") denotes the matter filling a given volume of space, then Yes. BUT!! Only if we measure speed in quantity of matter traversed per unit time, i.e. density/sec. If we measure speed in cm/sec, then c holds good only if the density is as low as it is in a vacuum. < And that includes the bending of light around massive objects.> In terms of c = densa/sec, Yes. In terms of c = ft/sec, No. < Light travels relative to the aether displaced by massive objects. > Not so. Light waves travel relative to the ether COMPOSING massive objects if any are part of the local aether through which a ray is traveling. glird |