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From: Paul Rubin on 4 Nov 2009 21:14
Tom St Denis <tom(a)iahu.ca> writes:
> I'm not stupid, I realize there are places on earth where human rights
> are not honoured. But in Canada and the States, as dramatic as people
> like to be, the government really isn't out to get them.

Maybe not today, but what about in the year 2030 or 2040, if any of us
are still around then? Who can predict what can happen in a few
decades? We have the example of 1930's Europe to scare us. If the US
or Canadian government is replaced by a Taliban-like dictatorship in
20 years, do you want them to have a vault full of recordings of the
steamy and/or blasphemous conversations that you're having today?

> So in the context I'd be more afraid of Skype tracking who you call
> and when, then selling that to marketers or other random companies
> to then use to target advertisements better and otherwise annoy
> people.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Skype#Service_in_People.27s_Republic_of_China

is instructive.
From: Tom St Denis on 4 Nov 2009 21:21
On Nov 4, 9:14 pm, Paul Rubin <http://phr...(a)NOSPAM.invalid> wrote:
> Tom St Denis <t...(a)iahu.ca> writes:
>
> > I'm not stupid, I realize there are places on earth where human rights
> > are not honoured.  But in Canada and the States, as dramatic as people
> > like to be, the government really isn't out to get them.  
>
> Maybe not today, but what about in the year 2030 or 2040, if any of us
> are still around then?  Who can predict what can happen in a few
> decades?  We have the example of 1930's Europe to scare us.  If the US
> or Canadian government is replaced by a Taliban-like dictatorship in
> 20 years, do you want them to have a vault full of recordings of the
> steamy and/or blasphemous conversations that you're having today?

I think if history teaches us anything is that when people go really
bad they need little rational reason to hurt one another. I mean come
on, "jews are the reason for the depression" ... really? I'm sure
that was based in scientific fact and well reasoned arguments.

My point above all is for people to realize what their REAL threats
are.

It's like this H1N1 scare. In Canada you are more likely to be
MURDERED while waiting in line for the flu shot than to die of ANY
flu. You're more likely to die of Cancer or Heart disease yet they
continually advertise McDonalds and Tim Hortons [a donut shop] between
news stories about H1N1.

People often lack perspective because they're ignorant of the facts.

Today, in America, you're more likely to be victim of improper privacy
and security by private interests. Sure the man might have your voice
on tape somewhere, but what does that actually mean in terms of your
ability to enjoy life?

Tom
From: Gordon Burditt on 4 Nov 2009 22:55
>It's like this H1N1 scare. In Canada you are more likely to be
>MURDERED while waiting in line for the flu shot than to die of ANY
>flu.

Do you have actual figures on that? I'm willing to believe that
(in Canada) you are more likely to be murdered than die of any flu.
I'm not so sure about being murdered while in line for the flu shot,
though. Do you have any actual figures on people-hours spent waiting
in line for flu shots?

From: robertwessel2 on 5 Nov 2009 01:13
On Nov 4, 9:55 pm, gordonb.ig...(a)burditt.org (Gordon Burditt) wrote:
> >It's like this H1N1 scare.  In Canada you are more likely to be
> >MURDERED while waiting in line for the flu shot than to die of ANY
> >flu.  
>
> Do you have actual figures on that?  I'm willing to believe that
> (in Canada) you are more likely to be murdered than die of any flu.
> I'm not so sure about being murdered while in line for the flu shot,
> though.  Do you have any actual figures on people-hours spent waiting
> in line for flu shots?


Hmmm... two minutes of searching turned up a murder rate for Canada
of 1.9/100,000, which, given a population of about 33.8 million,
yields about 640 murders per year. Normal flu deaths per year in
Canada (from the Canadian Medical Association Journal) appear to be
estimated to be 700-2500 annually (this contrasts with earlier
estimates of 500-1500).

So basically in a “good” flu years you have a roughly equal chance of
dying from the flu or being murdered. Of course for most individuals
the odds of being murdered are going to be far less than the nominal
1.9/100,000 rate. On the flip side, some sizable segments of the
population (basically the not-young, not-old, not sick group) are also
much less likely to die of the flu than others, but I think murder
rates are likely more concentrated.

And as to the standing in line issue… If you wait nine hours for a
flu shot, you’d have approximately a 1000-fold lesser chance of being
murdered (while in line) than of annually dying of the flu.
From: Unruh on 5 Nov 2009 03:07
"robertwessel2(a)yahoo.com" <robertwessel2(a)yahoo.com> writes:

>On Nov 4, 9:55=A0pm, gordonb.ig...(a)burditt.org (Gordon Burditt) wrote:
>> >It's like this H1N1 scare. =A0In Canada you are more likely to be
>> >MURDERED while waiting in line for the flu shot than to die of ANY
>> >flu. =A0
>>
>> Do you have actual figures on that? =A0I'm willing to believe that
>> (in Canada) you are more likely to be murdered than die of any flu.
>> I'm not so sure about being murdered while in line for the flu shot,
>> though. =A0Do you have any actual figures on people-hours spent waiting
>> in line for flu shots?


>Hmmm... two minutes of searching turned up a murder rate for Canada
>of 1.9/100,000, which, given a population of about 33.8 million,
>yields about 640 murders per year. Normal flu deaths per year in
>Canada (from the Canadian Medical Association Journal) appear to be
>estimated to be 700-2500 annually (this contrasts with earlier
>estimates of 500-1500).

>So basically in a =93good=94 flu years you have a roughly equal chance of
>dying from the flu or being murdered. Of course for most individuals
>the odds of being murdered are going to be far less than the nominal
>1.9/100,000 rate. On the flip side, some sizable segments of the
>population (basically the not-young, not-old, not sick group) are also
>much less likely to die of the flu than others, but I think murder
>rates are likely more concentrated.

The problem with H1N1 is precisely that those dying are in that not-young,
not-old, not-sick group. (well not sick except for flu).


>And as to the standing in line issue=85 If you wait nine hours for a
>flu shot, you=92d have approximately a 1000-fold lesser chance of being
>murdered (while in line) than of annually dying of the flu.

Since most murders do not occur in daylight with loads of people around, since the
number of flu deaths in canada from H1N1 is about half a century so far, and since
noone has been murdered in flu lineup AFAIK, his statement was rediculous.

Ie, murders are not some random affair, with that 1.9/million being randomly
selected.

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