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From: Ralph on 24 Nov 2009 14:49

"Bob Butler" <noway(a)nospam.ever> wrote in message
news:O8ehryTbKHA.2160(a)TK2MSFTNGP02.phx.gbl...
>
> "Ralph" <nt_consulting64(a)yahoo.com> wrote in message
> news:O50agkTbKHA.4688(a)TK2MSFTNGP06.phx.gbl...
> <cut>
> > However, it turns out that there are other reported quotes. Ignoring
those
> > that suggest "die" is the pattern or mold before a metal is poured. (As
> > they
> > are certainly insane.)
>
> Why would they be certainly insane? If the die has been cast then you've
> already made the piece so it's too late to make any more changes to the
> die... seems to fit as well as the others.
>

I was referring to arguments (ahh ... discussions) I have had in the past
where others presented exactly that view. At that time I weighted their
argument and judged it lack sufficient merit for further consideration.
Having made that decision it became bewildering to me that anyone could
persist in their view. The only logical explanation is that they were
insane.

The older I get, the more insanity I seem to run across.

-ralph
<g>


From: Mike Williams on 24 Nov 2009 15:30

"Ralph" <nt_consulting64(a)yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:O50agkTbKHA.4688(a)TK2MSFTNGP06.phx.gbl...

> Not sure why I used the word "dye" except by poorly formed
> habit when young, as I have since made a conscious decision
> to force myself to use the more commonly accepted quote as
> "the die is cast" from the reported - "Alea iacta est". Where
> "alea" is most certainly the singular of the word for "dice" - a
> gambling device.

Yep. That's certainly my own take on it.

> However, it turns out that there are other reported quotes.
> Ignoring those that suggest "die" is the pattern or mold before
> a metal is poured. (As they are certainly insane.)

Seems quite sane to me. At a push I'd accept that as an alternative.

> The other has Caesar quoting a Greek idiom/proverb in
> which once a "dye" or coloring substance has been thrown
> into the water there is no going back. This is more colorful

More colourful yes, but far less likely, and of course sheer lunacy ;-)

Mike



From: Bob Butler on 24 Nov 2009 16:10

"Ralph" <nt_consulting64(a)yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:%230lrW%23TbKHA.1592(a)TK2MSFTNGP06.phx.gbl...
>
> "Bob Butler" <noway(a)nospam.ever> wrote in message
> news:O8ehryTbKHA.2160(a)TK2MSFTNGP02.phx.gbl...
>>
>> "Ralph" <nt_consulting64(a)yahoo.com> wrote in message
>> news:O50agkTbKHA.4688(a)TK2MSFTNGP06.phx.gbl...
>> <cut>
>> > However, it turns out that there are other reported quotes. Ignoring
> those
>> > that suggest "die" is the pattern or mold before a metal is poured. (As
>> > they
>> > are certainly insane.)
>>
>> Why would they be certainly insane? If the die has been cast then you've
>> already made the piece so it's too late to make any more changes to the
>> die... seems to fit as well as the others.
>>
>
> I was referring to arguments (ahh ... discussions) I have had in the past
> where others presented exactly that view. At that time I weighted their
> argument and judged it lack sufficient merit for further consideration.
> Having made that decision it became bewildering to me that anyone could
> persist in their view. The only logical explanation is that they were
> insane.

Ah, kind of like arguing that VB.Net is an enhanced version of VB.... I get
it.

> The older I get, the more insanity I seem to run across.

I know that feeling


From: Ralph on 24 Nov 2009 17:09

"Bob Butler" <noway(a)nospam.ever> wrote in message
news:eRDt7qUbKHA.1640(a)TK2MSFTNGP06.phx.gbl...
> >
> > I was referring to arguments (ahh ... discussions) I have had in the
past
> > where others presented exactly that view. At that time I weighted their
> > argument and judged it lack sufficient merit for further consideration.
> > Having made that decision it became bewildering to me that anyone could
> > persist in their view. The only logical explanation is that they were
> > insane.
>
> Ah, kind of like arguing that VB.Net is an enhanced version of VB.... I
get
> it.
>

Ha, that is a true example of insanity and an apt analogy.

The "die" as a pattern or mold crowd point to prior art and historical usage
to try and support their claim. But it fails when it is pointed out that
while "die" for a pattern/mold, and "die" for a gambling device, are
homonymic in English - both Latin and Greek words for the respective items
are completely different, and no historian of the period ever suggested
Caesar was referrng to "datum".

The "VB.Net is an enhanced version of VB" crowd can point to MS marketing to
back up their claims, but one only needs a quick glance at the parser to
appreciate they have very little in common.

-ralph


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