Software bloat (Larkin was right)
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From: Tim Williams on 18 May 2010 18:39 "Joel Koltner" <zapwireDASHgroups(a)yahoo.com> wrote in message news:2cDIn.136868$pj7.90918(a)en-nntp-15.dc1.easynews.com... > It's around 1,500 lines of PowerBASIC code. > > John's program compiles to about 61kB. I've got some microcontroller source here, about 3.8kLOC in C, makes 13,688 bytes object code. Seems like an awful lot, I wonder if I've accidentially included any libraries I don't want. Tim -- Deep Friar: a very philosophical monk. Website: http://webpages.charter.net/dawill/tmoranwms
From: Bill Martin on 18 May 2010 21:16 Tim Williams wrote: > "Joel Koltner" <zapwireDASHgroups(a)yahoo.com> wrote in message > news:2cDIn.136868$pj7.90918(a)en-nntp-15.dc1.easynews.com... >> It's around 1,500 lines of PowerBASIC code. >> >> John's program compiles to about 61kB. > > I've got some microcontroller source here, about 3.8kLOC in C, makes 13,688 > bytes object code. Seems like an awful lot, I wonder if I've accidentially > included any libraries I don't want. > > Tim > Probably not, 3 or 4 bytes per source line is pretty normal for compiled C code. bill
From: D Yuniskis on 18 May 2010 21:30 Hi Tim, Tim Williams wrote: > "Joel Koltner" <zapwireDASHgroups(a)yahoo.com> wrote in message > news:2cDIn.136868$pj7.90918(a)en-nntp-15.dc1.easynews.com... >> It's around 1,500 lines of PowerBASIC code. >> >> John's program compiles to about 61kB. > > I've got some microcontroller source here, about 3.8kLOC in C, makes 13,688 > bytes object code. Seems like an awful lot, I wonder if I've accidentially > included any libraries I don't want. Play with Inferno sometime. It's *scary* how small the executables are! (of course, the cost of the VM isn't included there!)
From: Vladimir Vassilevsky on 18 May 2010 21:50 D Yuniskis wrote: > Hi Tim, > > Tim Williams wrote: > >> "Joel Koltner" <zapwireDASHgroups(a)yahoo.com> wrote in message >> news:2cDIn.136868$pj7.90918(a)en-nntp-15.dc1.easynews.com... >> >>> It's around 1,500 lines of PowerBASIC code. >>> >>> John's program compiles to about 61kB. >> >> >> I've got some microcontroller source here, about 3.8kLOC in C, makes >> 13,688 bytes object code. Seems like an awful lot, I wonder if I've >> accidentially included any libraries I don't want. > > > Play with Inferno sometime. It's *scary* how small the executables > are! (of course, the cost of the VM isn't included there!) The largest program I wrote so far is ~300k of the executable code; that's from ~2M sources in C++. BTW, one can write pretty extensive GUI programs for Windows using pure win32 API calls; the code size will be only few hundred kilobytes or so. VLV
From: Joel Koltner on 18 May 2010 22:02
"Vladimir Vassilevsky" <nospam(a)nowhere.com> wrote in message news:2aidnYGi4ZZA3m7WnZ2dnUVZ_oydnZ2d(a)giganews.com... > BTW, one can write pretty extensive GUI programs for Windows using pure > win32 API calls; the code size will be only few hundred kilobytes or so. Yeah, Steve Gibson (http://www.grc.com/intro.htm) is into that -- writing his software in assembly language and calling the GDI API directly. Personally I like using somewhat "higher level" GUI toolkits -- I've used wxWidgets a couple of times now, and one of its claims to fame is that it's no harder to make arbitrarily resizeable windows/dialogs/etc. than it is to use the old school fixed-size approach that, e.g., Visual BASIC and most of Windows until quite recently is known for. (I can't tell you how many times I've been presented with a dialog box that's too narrow to show, e.g., the full path & name of a file and desperatiely wished I could re-size it, but noooooo...) I'm also somewhat attracted to its cross-platform nature, given that there is some stuff on Linux that I like to mess around with. Why learn multiple GUI toolkits when you can just learn one and use it on Macs, Windows, and Linux? Of course the downside of all this is what started this thread -- incredibly large distributables even for very modest programs. Although these days even if you wrote the program in assembly and got it down to, say, 10kB, it'd still be invoking many megabytes of DLLs that come with Windows, like it or not. ---Joel |