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From: Shaun Amott on 9 Jul 2010 17:56
On Fri, Jul 09, 2010 at 10:51:01PM +0200, Dominic Fandrey wrote:
> > Ok - but how do we define "experienced"? Someone who has submitted 100
> > PORTVERSION++ PRs? I'm not convinced we have enough contributors who are
> > experienced enough to be given commit rights, but not contributing
> > enough to be offered full access.
>
> Well, I don't see a mass recruiting plan in action and the typical
> response time for a ports PR has dropped from a couple of hours to
> something around a month following a singular event everyone
> here probably already knows about.
>
> Though there are a lot of committers, there aren't many active
> committers. The need seems obvious to me and I figured it would
> be obvious to create some middle ground where the demands from
> both sides are less.

Indeed, part of the problem is burn-out. We recruit committers, and then
their activity tapers off (I'm guilty of this myself). Part of this, I
believe, is down to the effort involved in maintaining a useful
(up-to-date) testing environment -- hence my advocacy of a centralised
tinderbox resource. The machines I used to use are out-of-date and
probably inadequate now.

I don't disagree in principle with the idea of having a middle ground,
just not sure (how) it would work in practice.

> > Cases where other ports need touching (e.g., library bumps), or an
> > update depends on another port/PR elsewhere could prove to be
> > problematic.
>
> Those are the kind of maintainers that have the commit bit anyway.
> People who do the major stuff like Xorg, KDE, gnome, autobreak ...
> I think those are also the people who carry the main burden of
> Maintainer PRs. They really shouldn't have to, they've got more
> than enough work.
>
> >>> One thing that is sorely missed -- by me, at least -- is the ports
> >>> tinderbox mini-cluster we had previously (graciously provided by simon
> >>> and erwin). The major bottleneck in the review/commit process is the
> >>> testing part (again, I speak for myself). A set of tinderbox machines
> >>> representing the tier-1 architectures, to which we could grant
> >>> contributors access, would reduce the burden on committers (if a
> >>> patch/PR arrives with an accompanying log file).
> >>
> >> What needs to be done? (I.e. money, work hours)
> >
> > Machine(s), rack-space, someone to maintain said machines to a decent
> > standard. Possibly money could solve these issues. :-)
> >
> > I'm not sure how many non-committers were aware of / given access to tb3
> > and tb4 when they were around, but if tinderbox were used as a matter of
> > course, it would, I believe go some way to speeding things up.
> >
>
> So if I set up a private tinderbox and provide amd64 and i386
> 6-/7-/8-stable logs with every PR I submit it would hasten the
> processing of my PRs?
>
> If that is so, I'll get me a small quad-core with ~16GB RAM
> and a huge hard disk just for this purpose (my largest hard disk
> is the one in my notebook, not sufficient for all the distfiles
> and packages).

Sure, I would be more likely to look at / commit your patches in a
timely fashion if you've done part of the work for me. I'm pretty sure
it helped back when I was submitting lots of ports PRs.

--
Shaun Amott // PGP: 0x6B387A9A
"A foolish consistency is the hobgoblin
of little minds." - Ralph Waldo Emerson
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From: Warren Block on 9 Jul 2010 20:07
On Fri, 9 Jul 2010, Shaun Amott wrote:

> Indeed, part of the problem is burn-out. We recruit committers, and then
> their activity tapers off (I'm guilty of this myself). Part of this, I
> believe, is down to the effort involved in maintaining a useful
> (up-to-date) testing environment -- hence my advocacy of a centralised
> tinderbox resource. The machines I used to use are out-of-date and
> probably inadequate now.

Isn't that the type of project the Foundation is set up to fund?
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From: Lars Engels on 10 Jul 2010 05:00
On Fri, Jul 09, 2010 at 10:51:01PM +0200, Dominic Fandrey wrote:
> On 09/07/2010 22:00, Shaun Amott wrote:
> >
> > I'm not sure how many non-committers were aware of / given access to tb3
> > and tb4 when they were around, but if tinderbox were used as a matter of
> > course, it would, I believe go some way to speeding things up.
> >
>
> So if I set up a private tinderbox and provide amd64 and i386
> 6-/7-/8-stable logs with every PR I submit it would hasten the
> processing of my PRs?

The more complex a port is and the more dependencies it has the more
work a committer has to check if the PR is error-free.
Having TB-Logs would prove that the port builds fine, and the PR is more
likely to be taken.

It's also better for the submitter as he can see if he has made any
errors.
From: Bernhard Froehlich on 10 Jul 2010 05:28
On Sat, 10 Jul 2010 11:00:38 +0200, Lars Engels <lars.engels(a)0x20.net>
wrote:
> On Fri, Jul 09, 2010 at 10:51:01PM +0200, Dominic Fandrey wrote:
>> On 09/07/2010 22:00, Shaun Amott wrote:
>> >
>> > I'm not sure how many non-committers were aware of / given access to
>> > tb3
>> > and tb4 when they were around, but if tinderbox were used as a matter
>> > of
>> > course, it would, I believe go some way to speeding things up.
>> >
>>
>> So if I set up a private tinderbox and provide amd64 and i386
>> 6-/7-/8-stable logs with every PR I submit it would hasten the
>> processing of my PRs?
>
> The more complex a port is and the more dependencies it has the more
> work a committer has to check if the PR is error-free.
> Having TB-Logs would prove that the port builds fine, and the PR is more
> likely to be taken.

Exactly for this reason beat@ has created a Tinderbox Virtual Machine for
virtualbox. So port maintainers can test their updates in a tinderbox and
discover problems earlier without the need of a dedicated tinderbox machine
and all the setup woes.

http://vboxtindi.chruetertee.ch/

--
Bernhard Froehlich
http://www.bluelife.at/
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From: Dominic Fandrey on 13 Jul 2010 12:13
On 09/07/2010 23:56, Shaun Amott wrote:
> On Fri, Jul 09, 2010 at 10:51:01PM +0200, Dominic Fandrey wrote:
>> So if I set up a private tinderbox and provide amd64 and i386
>> 6-/7-/8-stable logs with every PR I submit it would hasten the
>> processing of my PRs?
>>
>> If that is so, I'll get me a small quad-core with ~16GB RAM
>> and a huge hard disk just for this purpose (my largest hard disk
>> is the one in my notebook, not sufficient for all the distfiles
>> and packages).
>
> Sure, I would be more likely to look at / commit your patches in a
> timely fashion if you've done part of the work for me. I'm pretty sure
> it helped back when I was submitting lots of ports PRs.

I ordered the machine last weekend. It won't run 24/7 or be remotely
accessible, but when I get comfortable with the process, I can
start testing other PRs and attach links to the test logs.

I think this is about as helpful as I can afford get at the moment.

On a side note, I only bought 8GB RAM, because of the ridiculous
pricing. I'll have to pay as much as I paid a couple of months
ago for the same amount for my notebook.

Regards

--
A: Because it fouls the order in which people normally read text.
Q: Why is top-posting such a bad thing?
A: Top-posting.
Q: What is the most annoying thing on usenet and in e-mail?
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