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From: Ing. Adolf Hochhaltinger on 6 Sep 2009 17:43
Bill Marcum schrieb:
> On 2009-09-04, Lukasz Matuszewski <matuszewski.lukasz(a)gmail.com> wrote:

> Don't ask the net to do your homework. Try to find the answers on your own
> and come back if you need help.
>

Hi Bill,

Though I got the point of your message and have to consider it being
quite understandable: I see it different (to give you an example): When
I drive to your hometown an stop next to you to ask you for a street you
know quite well - would your answer in that case also be only I should
go to the next gas station and purchase a roadmap?

You know the 'quality' of many linux manuals - often many information
and not so much structure; sometimes it takes a great amount of time for
beginners until one finally finds that few lines that contains that
essential bit of information one needed. So why let any poor guy read
some hundreds of manual pages just to find finally out these few commands?

Florian Diesch has given him in his answer the most valuable info (say,
the 'basics'), just enough to go along to read now the manuals and
how-tos _only_ about _these_ commands (and no more) to find his
solution, instead reading the manpages of many (all?) commands to find
out after the most of them 'this again was not the command I need!'?
With a few lines of help Florian saved Lukas (as I think) maybe not just
hours, but perhaps several days of his time.

I consider that sort of help Florian gave really helpful especially for
all newbies who don't know the linux shell commands at all.
Remember, many of them came over from the Windows world and knew only
the DOS way until then. especially for them I find it very important not
to scare them away when they put their first questions into a forum.

For many (new) Linux users this help is extremely useful - despite (yes,
I know!) these questions has surely been asked many times before.

Hope you take this not hostile!

with regards

A.H.
From: The Natural Philosopher on 7 Sep 2009 04:52
Ing. Adolf Hochhaltinger wrote:
> Bill Marcum schrieb:
>> On 2009-09-04, Lukasz Matuszewski <matuszewski.lukasz(a)gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> Don't ask the net to do your homework. Try to find the answers on
>> your own
>> and come back if you need help.
>>
>
> Hi Bill,
>
> Though I got the point of your message and have to consider it being
> quite understandable: I see it different (to give you an example): When
> I drive to your hometown an stop next to you to ask you for a street you
> know quite well - would your answer in that case also be only I should
> go to the next gas station and purchase a roadmap?
>
> You know the 'quality' of many linux manuals - often many information
> and not so much structure; sometimes it takes a great amount of time for
> beginners until one finally finds that few lines that contains that
> essential bit of information one needed. So why let any poor guy read
> some hundreds of manual pages just to find finally out these few commands?
>
> Florian Diesch has given him in his answer the most valuable info (say,
> the 'basics'), just enough to go along to read now the manuals and
> how-tos _only_ about _these_ commands (and no more) to find his
> solution, instead reading the manpages of many (all?) commands to find
> out after the most of them 'this again was not the command I need!'?
> With a few lines of help Florian saved Lukas (as I think) maybe not just
> hours, but perhaps several days of his time.
>
> I consider that sort of help Florian gave really helpful especially for
> all newbies who don't know the linux shell commands at all.
> Remember, many of them came over from the Windows world and knew only
> the DOS way until then. especially for them I find it very important not
> to scare them away when they put their first questions into a forum.
>
> For many (new) Linux users this help is extremely useful - despite (yes,
> I know!) these questions has surely been asked many times before.
>
> Hope you take this not hostile!
>
> with regards
>
> A.H.
Its not just Linux. Nearly all technical manuals are written from the
designers perspective.

I.e. 'here are the features, and this is what they do'

VERY few are written from the perspective of

'I have this problem: what possible manual pages do I need to fix it'

Google is your friend here.

From: Moe Trin on 7 Sep 2009 16:00
On Sun, 06 Sep 2009, in the Usenet newsgroup comp.os.linux.setup, in article
<17e30$4aa42d1c$54731089$28446(a)news.chello.at>, Ing. Adolf Hochhaltinger wrote:

>Bill Marcum schrieb:

>> Lukasz Matuszewski <matuszewski.lukasz(a)gmail.com> wrote:

>> Don't ask the net to do your homework. Try to find the answers on
>> your own and come back if you need help.

>Though I got the point of your message and have to consider it being
>quite understandable: I see it different (to give you an example):
>When I drive to your hometown an stop next to you to ask you for a
>street you know quite well - would your answer in that case also be
>only I should go to the next gas station and purchase a roadmap?

Your example doesn't match this situation. Yes, many (if not most)
of us would give the directions you seek. Would they give the same
answer to multiple unrelated questions - such as those a treasure
seeker would ask?

Results 1 - 10 of about 6,770,000 for geo-caching. (0.14 seconds)

Geocaching is similar to the 150-year-old game letterboxing, which
uses clues and references to landmarks embedded in stories.

The questions the O/P posted are _clearly_ a homework assignment, and
are part of a training scheme to teach how to use those commands. If
the O/P decided that he needed help beyond the training he had
received, he should either quit the class, or ask the instructor for
more assistance. The O/P isn't going to learn anything by asking
others to do his homework for him.

>Florian Diesch has given him in his answer the most valuable info (say,
>the 'basics'), just enough to go along to read now the manuals and
>how-tos _only_ about _these_ commands (and no more) to find his
>solution, instead reading the manpages of many (all?) commands to find
>out after the most of them 'this again was not the command I need!'?

[fermi ~]$ find /usr/share/man/man[1-8n] -type f | wc -l
9375
[fermi ~]$ find /usr/share/info -type f | wc -l
160
[fermi ~]$ ls `echo $PATH | tr ':' ' '` | grep -Ev '(:|^$)' | wc -l
3005
[fermi ~]$ find `echo $PATH | tr ':' ' '` -type f -atime -90 | wc -l
333
[fermi ~]$ ^90^30
find `echo $PATH | tr ':' ' '` -type f -atime -30 | wc -l
176
[fermi ~]$ history | cut -c7- | sed 's/ | / # /g' | tr '#' '\n' | sed
's/^ *//' | cut -d' ' -f1 | sort -u | wc -l
79
[fermi ~]$

There are 9375 man pages and 160 info pages on this system, and there
are 3005 "commands" in my $PATH. Even though I use the command line
rather extensively (there are 21 xterms on my desktop, and not a
single icon), I (and _all_ of the other users on this system) have only
used 333 of those 3005 commands in the last 90 days - 176 in the last
30 days. Looking at my history data, I've only used 79 different
commands (about average for me). But in the case of the O/P, I
_really_ doubt that the instructor discussed more than twenty
commands.

>I consider that sort of help Florian gave really helpful especially for
>all newbies who don't know the linux shell commands at all.
>Remember, many of them came over from the Windows world and knew only
>the DOS way until then.

* DOS-Win-to-Linux-HOWTO, From DOS/Windows to Linux HOWTO

Updated: Aug 1999. Written for all the DOS and Windows users who
have decided to switch to Linux.

Actually, the index is wrong here - this document was last updated on
31 August, 2000. There _was_ an earlier document titled
DOS-to-Linux-HOWTO last updated in October 1997, but it has been
withdrawn from official archives.

>For many (new) Linux users this help is extremely useful - despite
>(yes, I know!) these questions has surely been asked many times before.

The O/P posted from a search-engine.

>Hope you take this not hostile!

I'm not Bill, but I don't see your post as hostile. But Bill's post
was not hostile either.

Old guy
From: Andrew Halliwell on 10 Sep 2009 10:13
Lukasz Matuszewski <matuszewski.lukasz(a)gmail.com> wrote:
> Write commands, which are able to do following from shell level:
> A. send a signal to desired process
> B. find files which names are matched to desired pattern
> C. find files whos contents are matched to desired pattern
> D. cut a range of characters from every line
> E. view last N lines from desired file
> F. execute desired program step by step (debug him)
G. Do your homework for you.
--
| spike1(a)freenet.co,uk | "Are you pondering what I'm pondering Pinky?" |
| Andrew Halliwell BSc | |
| in | "I think so brain, but this time, you control |
| Computer Science | the Encounter suit, and I'll do the voice..." |
From: terryc on 10 Sep 2009 22:29
On Thu, 10 Sep 2009 15:13:23 +0100, Andrew Halliwell wrote:

> Lukasz Matuszewski <matuszewski.lukasz(a)gmail.com> wrote:
>> Write commands, which are able to do following from shell level:
>>A. send a signal to desired process

sighup?
>> B. find files which names are matched to desired pattern

find

>>C. find files whos contents are matched to desired pattern

grep

>> D. cut a range of characters from every line

awk or sed

>> E. view last N lines from desired file

tail -N

>> F. execute desired program step by step (debug him)

buggered if I know

> G. Do your homework for you.

These may or may not be correct {:-)

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