Speed of gravity
in [Relativity]
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From: Koobee Wublee on 3 Mar 2010 14:02 On Mar 3, 7:44 am, Igor <thoov...(a)excite.com> wrote: > On Mar 2, 5:06 pm, Koobee Wublee wrote: > > You can say the same thing for Newtonian gravity. <shrug> > > Uh, excuse me Mister Wublee, but that's not quite correct. In > Newtonian gravity, propagation is assumed to be instantaneous. Only > when finite light speed is considered do we arrive at the > modifications involved in GR. When Newton first modeled the law of gravitation, speed of gravity was assumed to be infinity. That is correct. However, the speed of gravity does not have to be infinite under the Newtonian law of gravity. That allowed Laplace and many others before Einstein the nitwit, the plagiarist, and the liar to show that this speed must be several orders of magnitude higher than the already very fast speed of light. There is nothing special about GR showing the speed of gravity is indeed the speed of light. <shrug> > > Yes, it is not possible to show gravitational effect propagates at a > > certain speed just by examining the field equations. <shrug> > > Excuse me again, but that's not quite true, either. Gravitational > waves are easily shown to propagate at c. This is not true. Rosens derivation is utter nonsense. The manmade mathematical artifact of the Riemann curvature tensor is beside the point. <shrug> > And these are derived from > nothing but the field equations in the weak field limit. Weak field is Newtonian. <shrug> > Now who's shrugging? Koobee Wublee and Professor Roberts. <shrug> > > Conclusion? You mean by a unanimous vote just like our congressmen > > unanimously vote for their salary increase every single year while the > > general public experience great hardship in this dire economy. > > <shrug> > > Many people shrug when they have no clue about what is going on around > them. Et tu, Wublee? You can continue to gulp down scriptures from the fermented diarrhea of Einstein the nitwit, the plagiarist, and the liar. <shrug>
From: BURT on 3 Mar 2010 14:10 On Mar 3, 11:02 am, Koobee Wublee <koobee.wub...(a)gmail.com> wrote: > On Mar 3, 7:44 am, Igor <thoov...(a)excite.com> wrote: > > > On Mar 2, 5:06 pm, Koobee Wublee wrote: > > > You can say the same thing for Newtonian gravity. <shrug> > > > Uh, excuse me Mister Wublee, but that's not quite correct. In > > Newtonian gravity, propagation is assumed to be instantaneous. Only > > when finite light speed is considered do we arrive at the > > modifications involved in GR. > > When Newton first modeled the law of gravitation, speed of gravity was > assumed to be infinity. That is correct. However, the speed of > gravity does not have to be infinite under the Newtonian law of > gravity. That allowed Laplace and many others before Einstein the > nitwit, the plagiarist, and the liar to show that this speed must be > several orders of magnitude higher than the already very fast speed of > light. There is nothing special about GR showing the speed of gravity > is indeed the speed of light. <shrug> > > > > Yes, it is not possible to show gravitational effect propagates at a > > > certain speed just by examining the field equations. <shrug> > > > Excuse me again, but that's not quite true, either. Gravitational > > waves are easily shown to propagate at c. > > This is not true. Rosens derivation is utter nonsense. The manmade > mathematical artifact of the Riemann curvature tensor is beside the > point. <shrug> > > > And these are derived from > > nothing but the field equations in the weak field limit. > > Weak field is Newtonian. <shrug> > > > Now who's shrugging? > > Koobee Wublee and Professor Roberts. <shrug> > > > > Conclusion? You mean by a unanimous vote just like our congressmen > > > unanimously vote for their salary increase every single year while the > > > general public experience great hardship in this dire economy. > > > <shrug> > > > Many people shrug when they have no clue about what is going on around > > them. Et tu, Wublee? > > You can continue to gulp down scriptures from the fermented diarrhea > of Einstein the nitwit, the plagiarist, and the liar. <shrug> Gravity flows from its center. Mitch Raemsch
From: G. L. Bradford on 3 Mar 2010 14:30 "Igor" <thoovler(a)excite.com> wrote in message news:2c609a95-a197-4daf-8954-21cd8cce9b73(a)g28g2000yqh.googlegroups.com... On Mar 2, 5:06 pm, Koobee Wublee <koobee.wub...(a)gmail.com> wrote: > On Mar 1, 9:53 am, carlip-nos...(a)physics.ucdavis.edu wrote: > > > General relativity predicts that gravity propagates at the speed of > > light, in the sense that if you change the matter configuration in > > some finite region, the gravitational effects of that change don't > > reach distant regions until after the light-travel time to those > > regions. > > You can say the same thing for Newtonian gravity. <shrug> Uh, excuse me Mister Wublee, but that's not quite correct. In Newtonian gravity, propagation is assumed to be instantaneous. Only when finite light speed is considered do we arrive at the modifications involved in GR. > > I wouldn't say Einstein "assumed" this -- it was not put > > into the derivation of the field equations of general relativity, > > Yes, it is not possible to show gravitational effect propagates at a > certain speed just by examining the field equations. <shrug> Excuse me again, but that's not quite true, either. Gravitational waves are easily shown to propagate at c. And these are derived from nothing but the field equations in the weak field limit. Now who's shrugging? > > but is, rather, a conclusion. > > Conclusion? You mean by a unanimous vote just like our congressmen > unanimously vote for their salary increase every single year while the > general public experience great hardship in this dire economy. > <shrug> Many people shrug when they have no clue about what is going on around them. Et tu, Wublee? ============================ I just have to keep shaking my head over the proofs. From Carlip right through you and so many more in the world who proport to know all about relativity. I said it much earlier in the thread concerning "translight" velocities, that 99% of the learned opposition to that fellow, as well as him and his own group, routinely, blindly, ineptly, carelessly and lazily will keep the space in "space-time" to be rigidly absolute when they make the time in "space-time" malleably pliable. They, including you very obviously , seem not to even realize that they are committing this capital crime (so to speak) regarding a fundamental precept of relativity-- that space and time are a "single entity" (AS MUCH A SINGLE ENTITY AS THE [FIXED] ELEMENT CONSTITUENCY OF THE CONSTANT OF 'c'). What then divides, separates, splits out, is not the entities of space and time -- now the "single entity" of space-time -- but the frames of "local" and "non-local"! GLB ===========================
From: BURT on 3 Mar 2010 15:17 On Mar 3, 11:30 am, "G. L. Bradford" <glbra...(a)insightbb.com> wrote: > "Igor" <thoov...(a)excite.com> wrote in message > > news:2c609a95-a197-4daf-8954-21cd8cce9b73(a)g28g2000yqh.googlegroups.com... > On Mar 2, 5:06 pm, Koobee Wublee <koobee.wub...(a)gmail.com> wrote: > > > On Mar 1, 9:53 am, carlip-nos...(a)physics.ucdavis.edu wrote: > > > > General relativity predicts that gravity propagates at the speed of > > > light, in the sense that if you change the matter configuration in > > > some finite region, the gravitational effects of that change don't > > > reach distant regions until after the light-travel time to those > > > regions. > > > You can say the same thing for Newtonian gravity. <shrug> > > Uh, excuse me Mister Wublee, but that's not quite correct. In > Newtonian gravity, propagation is assumed to be instantaneous. Only > when finite light speed is considered do we arrive at the > modifications involved in GR. > > > > I wouldn't say Einstein "assumed" this -- it was not put > > > into the derivation of the field equations of general relativity, > > > Yes, it is not possible to show gravitational effect propagates at a > > certain speed just by examining the field equations. <shrug> > > Excuse me again, but that's not quite true, either. Gravitational > waves are easily shown to propagate at c. And these are derived from > nothing but the field equations in the weak field limit. Now who's > shrugging? > > > > but is, rather, a conclusion. > > > Conclusion? You mean by a unanimous vote just like our congressmen > > unanimously vote for their salary increase every single year while the > > general public experience great hardship in this dire economy. > > <shrug> > > Many people shrug when they have no clue about what is going on around > them. Et tu, Wublee? > > ============================ > > I just have to keep shaking my head over the proofs. From Carlip right > through you and so many more in the world who proport to know all about > relativity. I said it much earlier in the thread concerning "translight" > velocities, that 99% of the learned opposition to that fellow, as well as > him and his own group, routinely, blindly, ineptly, carelessly and lazily > will keep the space in "space-time" to be rigidly absolute when they make > the time in "space-time" malleably pliable. They, including you very > obviously , seem not to even realize that they are committing this capital > crime (so to speak) regarding a fundamental precept of relativity-- that > space and time are a "single entity" (AS MUCH A SINGLE ENTITY AS THE [FIXED] > ELEMENT CONSTITUENCY OF THE CONSTANT OF 'c'). > > What then divides, separates, splits out, is not the entities of space and > time -- now the "single entity" of space-time -- but the frames of "local" > and "non-local"! > > GLB > > =========================== There is more than one source of geometry in gravity. Gravity curve passes through itself in the multi body problem. Mitch Raemsch
From: G. L. Bradford on 3 Mar 2010 16:04
"BURT" <macromitch(a)yahoo.com> wrote in message news:a3242989-4a02-4193-9ff8-1d37b8edfbb6(a)o16g2000prh.googlegroups.com... On Mar 3, 11:02 am, Koobee Wublee <koobee.wub...(a)gmail.com> wrote: > On Mar 3, 7:44 am, Igor <thoov...(a)excite.com> wrote: > > > On Mar 2, 5:06 pm, Koobee Wublee wrote: > > > You can say the same thing for Newtonian gravity. <shrug> > > > Uh, excuse me Mister Wublee, but that's not quite correct. In > > Newtonian gravity, propagation is assumed to be instantaneous. Only > > when finite light speed is considered do we arrive at the > > modifications involved in GR. > > When Newton first modeled the law of gravitation, speed of gravity was > assumed to be infinity. That is correct. However, the speed of > gravity does not have to be infinite under the Newtonian law of > gravity. That allowed Laplace and many others before Einstein the > nitwit, the plagiarist, and the liar to show that this speed must be > several orders of magnitude higher than the already very fast speed of > light. There is nothing special about GR showing the speed of gravity > is indeed the speed of light. <shrug> > > > > Yes, it is not possible to show gravitational effect propagates at a > > > certain speed just by examining the field equations. <shrug> > > > Excuse me again, but that's not quite true, either. Gravitational > > waves are easily shown to propagate at c. > > This is not true. Rosen�s derivation is utter nonsense. The manmade > mathematical artifact of the Riemann curvature tensor is beside the > point. <shrug> > > > And these are derived from > > nothing but the field equations in the weak field limit. > > Weak field is Newtonian. <shrug> > > > Now who's shrugging? > > Koobee Wublee and Professor Roberts. <shrug> > > > > Conclusion? You mean by a unanimous vote just like our congressmen > > > unanimously vote for their salary increase every single year while the > > > general public experience great hardship in this dire economy. > > > <shrug> > > > Many people shrug when they have no clue about what is going on around > > them. Et tu, Wublee? > > You can continue to gulp down scriptures from the fermented diarrhea > of Einstein the nitwit, the plagiarist, and the liar. <shrug> Gravity flows from its center. Mitch Raemsch ========================= Then you, like Carlip and others, are unthinkingly calling gravity a push entity on the order of 'dark energy', pushing or radiating waves out and away from the interior, against gravity (a [push gravity] acting against the field / the well / the singularity, of gravity). It might be something like an interacting dark energy (going outward bound), but it is not the field (the well) (the singularity) of gravity. GLB ========================= |