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From: --CELKO-- on 15 Oct 2009 21:53
>> there is a fraction of a percent of companies out there that are dealing in Terabytes - and that is true; its not a guess from a four walled classroom - its a reality - I am in the industry full time as a consultant - I don't just work the odd day a couple of times a month like yourself. <<

You work for companies that are not Fortune 1000 and/or are not start-
ups that are interesting to me. I work for the Fortune 1000 and
interesting start-ups. You are a code monkey; I an a Guru with a cult
following :) That is why I can do this. I am not a one-product
person.

Your postings are becoming more insane -- mapping helio_centric earth
to RDBMS?


From: Tony Rogerson on 16 Oct 2009 02:36
Ok - let me reiterate because as ever you are completely avoiding the
question....

I asked you to qualify what data mining experience you have in the product
you are berating ie. MICROSOFT SQL SERVER, have you ever even installed it?
What is the name of Microsoft's own unique mining algorithm and then the
others that come built-in?

You cannot just go around making unqualified statements like you do, look,
face it - you aren't what you where 20 years ago - your skill set is far far
far out of date.

And let's face it - you don't work for any companies except the odd training
gig so stop building yourself up as if you do. Once upon of time (+20 years
ago) that statement may have been true but, it ain't now.

And lastly, you are a guru in the ANSI 89 implementation of standard sql,
nothing else, your "guru'ishness" is very very narrow and specific to that
standard; the only thing original you have come up with on your own is the
term "spaghetti" coding; even Nested Sets you took from somebody else and
popularlised it as if it was your own - I sincerely hope all your books that
describe the Nested Sets give credit to the guy who actually came up with
the idea when applied to SQL.

Anyway, back to the original thread - either qualify what real experience
you have with Microsoft data mining and detail it or shut the F up and stop
guessing.

--ROGGIE--

"--CELKO--" <jcelko212(a)earthlink.net> wrote in message
news:c41a215f-4b0c-4640-8543-3f11f250cb68(a)j24g2000yqa.googlegroups.com...
>>> there is a fraction of a percent of companies out there that are dealing
>>> in Terabytes - and that is true; its not a guess from a four walled
>>> classroom - its a reality - I am in the industry full time as a
>>> consultant - I don't just work the odd day a couple of times a month
>>> like yourself. <<
>
> You work for companies that are not Fortune 1000 and/or are not start-
> ups that are interesting to me. I work for the Fortune 1000 and
> interesting start-ups. You are a code monkey; I an a Guru with a cult
> following :) That is why I can do this. I am not a one-product
> person.
>
> Your postings are becoming more insane -- mapping helio_centric earth
> to RDBMS?
>
>
From: --CELKO-- on 20 Oct 2009 00:20
>> have you ever even installed it? What is the name of Microsoft's own unique mining algorithm and then the others that come built-in? <<

The places I do Data Mining today are on Oracle, DB2 and Teradata. It
would be pretty useless. And, yes, I know about the Logistic
Regression algorithm and Microsoft Neural Network algorithm. Back
years ago, MS was talking to Angoss and other small companies to
“partner” with them, Microsoft style – get their technology and dump
them.

Tools like SAS and SPSS have a huge library of statistical functions.
Then there are specialized tools like KnowledgeSeeker, others for time
series analysis, etc. Microsoft is not really in this game.

>> And let's face it - you don't work for any companies except the odd training gig so stop building yourself up as if you do. Once upon of time (+20 years ago) that statement may have been true but, it ain't now. <<

One month ago, I was at the State of Texas on a daily basis for a few
months on the Voter Registration database. I believe Texas still has
a GDP greater than most of the nations in Europe, so I am not sure
how to rate it as a Fortune 1000 company :)

>> And lastly, you are a guru in the ANSI 89 implementation of standard SQL, nothing else, your "guru'ishness" is very very narrow and specific to that standard; <<

No, I am more associated with the SQL-92 and SQL-99 Standards, since I
used them in my books and a few hundred magazine articles. SQL:2003
will be used more in the fourth edition of SQL FOR SMARTIES.

>> the only thing original you have come up with on your own is the term "spaghetti" coding; <<

Perhaps before you attack me, you shouidl do “Google
Diligence” (another term I popularized)?

For the record. I coined the term “Lasagne code” in 1982 (http://
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spaghetti_code) not spaghetti code.
Wikipedia has it a bit wrong; I was referring to IF-THEN-ELSE
constructs so deeply layered that you had no idea what the state of
the environment was. I was pushing for more AND. OR and NOT logic in
the IF and WHILE clauses of structured programs.

I think Ed Yourdon was the first to use “Spaghetti code” in print.

>> even Nested Sets you took from somebody else and popularized it as if it was your own - I sincerely hope all your books that describe the Nested Sets give credit to the guy who actually came up with the idea when applied to SQL. <<

Michael J. Kamfonas (http://www.kamfonas.com/id3.html) and I have
always given credit to him for the Relational Journal article. He
never pursued the programming tricks with it. I am the only reference
in the above article.

>> Anyway, back to the original thread - either qualify what real experience you have with Microsoft data mining and detail it or shut the F up and stop guessing. <<

Okay, my turn. How many years have you been employed as a full-time
statistical analyst? How many credit hours in stats do you have in
your Master in Math? How many books on data mining have you written?
Articles?
From: Tony Rogerson on 20 Oct 2009 00:39
Precisely - you've never even installed it; and judging its took you a few
days to reply you've had to actually go and research what Data Mining comes
built into the product.

Yet another sign of your arrogance in believing that you can just go on in
life without researching and keeping current.

And given you do all your work on Oracle, DB2 and Teradata - why aren't you
plaguing their forums with your frequently incorrect drivel - oh, because
you don't work that often aside from the odd training gig!

Oh, and you also confirm that you don't actually work for Fortune 1000
companies - man you are such a fraud; and frankly I respond again your posts
with the same demeanor and aggression you give other posters on here - so,
what goes around comes around --celko--.

--ROGGIE--

"--CELKO--" <jcelko212(a)earthlink.net> wrote in message
news:97421e9f-35e3-4ba5-9490-cea679a05512(a)d23g2000vbm.googlegroups.com...
>>> have you ever even installed it? What is the name of Microsoft's own
>>> unique mining algorithm and then the others that come built-in? <<
>
> The places I do Data Mining today are on Oracle, DB2 and Teradata. It
> would be pretty useless. And, yes, I know about the Logistic
> Regression algorithm and Microsoft Neural Network algorithm. Back
> years ago, MS was talking to Angoss and other small companies to
> �partner� with them, Microsoft style � get their technology and dump
> them.
>
> Tools like SAS and SPSS have a huge library of statistical functions.
> Then there are specialized tools like KnowledgeSeeker, others for time
> series analysis, etc. Microsoft is not really in this game.
>
>>> And let's face it - you don't work for any companies except the odd
>>> training gig so stop building yourself up as if you do. Once upon of
>>> time (+20 years ago) that statement may have been true but, it ain't
>>> now. <<
>
> One month ago, I was at the State of Texas on a daily basis for a few
> months on the Voter Registration database. I believe Texas still has
> a GDP greater than most of the nations in Europe, so I am not sure
> how to rate it as a Fortune 1000 company :)
>
>>> And lastly, you are a guru in the ANSI 89 implementation of standard
>>> SQL, nothing else, your "guru'ishness" is very very narrow and specific
>>> to that standard; <<
>
> No, I am more associated with the SQL-92 and SQL-99 Standards, since I
> used them in my books and a few hundred magazine articles. SQL:2003
> will be used more in the fourth edition of SQL FOR SMARTIES.
>
>>> the only thing original you have come up with on your own is the term
>>> "spaghetti" coding; <<
>
> Perhaps before you attack me, you shouidl do �Google
> Diligence� (another term I popularized)?
>
> For the record. I coined the term �Lasagne code� in 1982 (http://
> en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spaghetti_code) not spaghetti code.
> Wikipedia has it a bit wrong; I was referring to IF-THEN-ELSE
> constructs so deeply layered that you had no idea what the state of
> the environment was. I was pushing for more AND. OR and NOT logic in
> the IF and WHILE clauses of structured programs.
>
> I think Ed Yourdon was the first to use �Spaghetti code� in print.
>
>>> even Nested Sets you took from somebody else and popularized it as if
>>> it was your own - I sincerely hope all your books that describe the
>>> Nested Sets give credit to the guy who actually came up with the idea
>>> when applied to SQL. <<
>
> Michael J. Kamfonas (http://www.kamfonas.com/id3.html) and I have
> always given credit to him for the Relational Journal article. He
> never pursued the programming tricks with it. I am the only reference
> in the above article.
>
>>> Anyway, back to the original thread - either qualify what real
>>> experience you have with Microsoft data mining and detail it or shut the
>>> F up and stop guessing. <<
>
> Okay, my turn. How many years have you been employed as a full-time
> statistical analyst? How many credit hours in stats do you have in
> your Master in Math? How many books on data mining have you written?
> Articles?

From: --CELKO-- on 20 Oct 2009 16:16
>> Precisely - you've never even installed it; and judging its took you a few days to reply you've had to actually go and research what Data Mining comes built into the product. <<

I don't have a Data Mining client on SQL Server. But I did my
research on MS stuff and will still go for SAS or SPSS when I do
serious work.

The Data Mining is not built-in to SQL Server; it is stuck on the
sides. Are you familiar with Floating Point Rounding errors? I don't
mean that you know they exists; do you now about the **corrections**
that should be applied ? The easiest is for addition (sort on
absolute value, sort from low to high and add in sequence) , then they
get complicated -- logs, square roots, etc, require different
corrections.

This is not so bad when the data is less than a million rows. But I
work with more data than that.

>> Yet another sign of your arrogance in believing that you can just go on in life without researching and keeping current. <<

LOL! One insane rant you call me an academic who is all research and
the next rant I do no research. I get called in by start-ups so that
I am ahead of current.

>> And given you do all your work on Oracle, DB2 and Teradata - why aren't you plaguing their forums with your frequently incorrect drivel - oh, because you don't work that often aside from the odd training gig! <<

Tony, I counted 17 different SQL products that I worked on or
consulted for the product developers over the years. I am the "SQL
Guy" and not the "one-product-only Guy" instead.

Oh, before I get trapped in the "Troll Attack" that you are doing. I
should know better than to reply to someone who rants about
Heliocentric models of the Universe in a DB forum. But let me ask:

1) Would you mind answering my previous questions about YOUR
credentials for data mining? Do not go into details -- just the title
of your last book or article, or the last project (year and enterprise
area).

2) Where did you post your query for Suduko query? You siad it woudl
take you 5 minutes to write a better answer.

For those "Troll Trackers" coming in late, a friend of mine (Richard
Romley) wrote a single query stored procedure that generates ALL valid
solutions. It was demonstration that an 81 parameter procedure call
was not hurt by a long parameter list (another myth among newbie SQL
programmers), that SQL Server can do an 81 way self-join, that simple
direct search conditions are faster than doing bit manipulation, etc.

It showed a lot of the strengths of SQL Server.

And that a lot of Sudoku puzzles that are published have multiple
solutions. ARRGH! Tony's reply to Richard was to ask for a solution
to a grid that had zero to nine across the top row. Think about it;
This is a request for an isomorphism of all valid grids. The number
of possible 9 by 9 Sudoku grids is N=6,670,903,752,021,072,936,960
which is approximately 6.671×1021.

Gee, I wonder why Richard told your demand was impossible in the real
world? Duh? Perhaps because BIGINT tops off at
9,223,372,036,854,775,807 is a consideration.

The nature of the insane or a newsgroup troll is they only throw out
insults and misquote facts that are available. They never answer
questions ask of them. They spit bile without explanation as to why
there was an error in the poster's statement.

NOW

1) Post your Sudoko query/SP

2) Tell us, AGAIN, how many years have you been employed as a full-
time statistical analyst? How many credit hours in stats do you have
in your Master in Math? How many books on data mining have you
written? Any articles-- academic or popular press





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