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From: Kavi on 30 Dec 2009 00:14
Hi,

I am a web application developer for last 5 years and knows
HTML,ASP,JavaScript,VBScript,XML etc.

I want to move to .NET web application development with Visual Studio.Net or
..NET Framework.

I just know What is .NET

Basically I want to become expert in .NET and get certified professional.

Could any one provide me the roadmap to achieve this..thats is where to
start or any course recommendation?

Thanks.



From: Gregory A. Beamer on 30 Dec 2009 10:33
=?Utf-8?B?S2F2aQ==?= <Kavi(a)discussions.microsoft.com> wrote in
news:7DE77A55-F8B1-4512-B5E3-8BEDF6DB84C4(a)microsoft.com:

> I am a web application developer for last 5 years and knows
> HTML,ASP,JavaScript,VBScript,XML etc.
>
> I want to move to .NET web application development with Visual
> Studio.Net or .NET Framework.
>
> I just know What is .NET
>
> Basically I want to become expert in .NET and get certified
> professional.
>
> Could any one provide me the roadmap to achieve this..thats is where
> to start or any course recommendation?


Here are some suggestions I have:

1. Switch from VB to C#. If you move from ASP to ASP.NET with VB as your
language, you will continue trying to write ASP style code, which
completely misses the point. You have a paradigm shift ahead.

2. Consume the free stuff out there. The site www.asp.net has plenty of
information on developing web applications in .NET and includes a large
amount of source code. I am not fond of the way all samples are built,
but it is a good start.

3. Find a couple of projects you can work on, even if they are free. I
have sent numerous people to do pro bono work for charities. Being able
to show examples is a great way to get a job.

4. Participate in open source if you consume it. Open source projects
are another place to contribute and get your name known.

I am not as fond of certification, as it has limited value to me now.
The best way to get certified is to examine the requirements and make
sure your learning plan hits those elements. The problem with
certification is there are also cheat sites out there where a person can
get a cert by studying the answers (has certification, but no
understanding).

Peace and Grace,


--
Gregory A. Beamer (MVP)

Twitter: @gbworld
Blog: http://gregorybeamer.spaces.live.com

*******************************************
| Think outside the box! |
*******************************************
From: Scott M. on 30 Dec 2009 19:50
Just one addition/clarification to Greg's comments about using C# instead of
VB to code with...

I think Greg's suggestion to use C# has some merit, but understand that what
he's trying to say is that since you used to do, what we now call "Classic
ASP", that means you used VBScript for your programming and if you move to
ASP .NET and use VB .NET as your language, you may be tempted to use older
style (but still supported for legacy reasons) coding conventions and
syntax. Using C# would force you to learn how to utilize ASP .NET (and the
..NET Framework) from scratch, which is certainly the most thorough way to
go.

But, you should know that one of the most often asked questions about
working in .NET is which language is the best .NET language to work with and
here the simple answer is, "It doesn't matter. They are all largely capable
of the same results with the same performance.".

So just understand that Greg isn't telling you not to use VB .NET because
there's something wrong with VB .NET, he is just providing some good advice
on how to not get caught dragging your old baggage around as you try to buy
some new luggage.

I would also add that the first thing you should get your head around is
what .NET development entails, so you know what to go learn.

At a low level, everything that a .NET application accomplishes is
accomplished by the core ".NET Framework", which has an "engine" (called the
Common Language Runtime or CLR) that processes all instructions needed.
This CLR doesn't actually understand C# or VB.NET - - it understands
Microsoft's Intermediate Langauge or MSIL. Additionally, working in .NET
means working with objects. All the .NET languages are fully
object-oriented (unlike VBScript or VB 6.0) and the .NET Framework has
literally tens of thousands of pre-made objects ready to go...if you know
how to use them.

Now, when you want to "talk" to the CLR or use one of the baked in objects,
you'll do so with your .NET language of choice (C#, VB .NET, and C++ .NET
are all available natively in Visual Studio). As mentioned, C# and VB .NET,
while syntactically different, can both largely accomplish the same things
with the same performance so choosing one is really a matter of preferance.
When you compile your code, it is translated into the MSIL that the CLR
actually processes, so as far as the CLR is concerned, the language you've
picked doesn't matter.

Lastly, to actually do your development, you use Visual Studio, so it's not
a choice between Visual Studio or .NET, you use Visual Studio as the
environment that allows you to write code, using the language of your
choice, and then compile it down to MSIL.

So, in a nutshell, to learn and become proficient with .NET, you need to
move along 3 learning paths simultaneously:

Learning the .NET Framework
Learning the .NET language of your choice
Learning the Visual Studio Integrated Design Environment (IDE)

Coming at this from scratch WILL take some serious time and effort. I've
been working with .NET since its early betas back in 2001 and can say that
I'm an "expert" in some areas of .NET development and not an expert in many
more areas.

I also agree with Greg that, unless you have a specific need for a
certification, you may want to rethink getting one. Many employers don't
put too much stock into them as it is well known that having the
certification just shows that the holder knows how to pass a test and
doesn't *necessarially* (disclaimer for my certified friends out there :) )
mean that you really have a mastery of the topic. Most employers are much
more interested in finding out what you know and what you can do, which a
certification doesn't tell them so they very often will ask you to build or
describe how you would build a particular type of application as part of the
interview process.

Good luck and happy new year!

-Scott



"Gregory A. Beamer" <NoSpamMgbworld(a)comcast.netNoSpamM> wrote in message
news:Xns9CF160EA8C0B1gbworld(a)207.46.248.16...
> =?Utf-8?B?S2F2aQ==?= <Kavi(a)discussions.microsoft.com> wrote in
> news:7DE77A55-F8B1-4512-B5E3-8BEDF6DB84C4(a)microsoft.com:
>
>> I am a web application developer for last 5 years and knows
>> HTML,ASP,JavaScript,VBScript,XML etc.
>>
>> I want to move to .NET web application development with Visual
>> Studio.Net or .NET Framework.
>>
>> I just know What is .NET
>>
>> Basically I want to become expert in .NET and get certified
>> professional.
>>
>> Could any one provide me the roadmap to achieve this..thats is where
>> to start or any course recommendation?
>
>
> Here are some suggestions I have:
>
> 1. Switch from VB to C#. If you move from ASP to ASP.NET with VB as your
> language, you will continue trying to write ASP style code, which
> completely misses the point. You have a paradigm shift ahead.
>
> 2. Consume the free stuff out there. The site www.asp.net has plenty of
> information on developing web applications in .NET and includes a large
> amount of source code. I am not fond of the way all samples are built,
> but it is a good start.
>
> 3. Find a couple of projects you can work on, even if they are free. I
> have sent numerous people to do pro bono work for charities. Being able
> to show examples is a great way to get a job.
>
> 4. Participate in open source if you consume it. Open source projects
> are another place to contribute and get your name known.
>
> I am not as fond of certification, as it has limited value to me now.
> The best way to get certified is to examine the requirements and make
> sure your learning plan hits those elements. The problem with
> certification is there are also cheat sites out there where a person can
> get a cert by studying the answers (has certification, but no
> understanding).
>
> Peace and Grace,
>
>
> --
> Gregory A. Beamer (MVP)
>
> Twitter: @gbworld
> Blog: http://gregorybeamer.spaces.live.com
>
> *******************************************
> | Think outside the box! |
> *******************************************


From: Gregory A. Beamer on 31 Dec 2009 12:17
"Scott M." <s-mar(a)nospam.nospam> wrote in
news:OVCa9MbiKHA.1648(a)TK2MSFTNGP05.phx.gbl:

> So just understand that Greg isn't telling you not to use VB .NET
> because there's something wrong with VB .NET, he is just providing
> some good advice on how to not get caught dragging your old baggage
> around as you try to buy some new luggage.

Most certainly. Although I have been known to badger VB developers, on a
friendly basis, the choice of language is not necessarily "which is
better" but "which is better for me, my market, etc." which is more of a
personal decision.

There are times when one language is "better" for a particular task, but
this is changing over time.

I prefer C# for a few reasons:

1. More concise syntax
2. More jobs

The #2 is more applicable, in many ways, as there are few VB jobs out
there in this market. I still fix VB, as a consultant, and have even
taken positions using VB, although I have been known to code complex
bits in C# and then use Reflector to get the proper VB syntax. :P

Peace and Grace,


--
Gregory A. Beamer (MVP)

Twitter: @gbworld
Blog: http://gregorybeamer.spaces.live.com

*******************************************
| Think outside the box! |
*******************************************
From: Scott M. on 31 Dec 2009 12:26

"Gregory A. Beamer" <NoSpamMgbworld(a)comcast.netNoSpamM> wrote in message
news:Xns9CF27281D8D62gbworld(a)207.46.248.16...
> "Scott M." <s-mar(a)nospam.nospam> wrote in
> news:OVCa9MbiKHA.1648(a)TK2MSFTNGP05.phx.gbl:
> I prefer C# for a few reasons:
>
> 1. More concise syntax
> 2. More jobs
>
> The #2 is more applicable, in many ways, as there are few VB jobs out
> there in this market. I still fix VB, as a consultant, and have even
> taken positions using VB, although I have been known to code complex
> bits in C# and then use Reflector to get the proper VB syntax. :P
>

But, just to qualify that, #2 is really about where you are looking for work
(geographically) and what industry your looking in. In my area (Hartford,
CT), I see much more VB .NET development and opportunities (big insurance
and financial services area) than I do C#.

As for #1, that's debatable as a matter of preference. I would argue that
VB is more concise because of its requirement to label much of the language
constructs with the proper keyword. Some say that this makes VB more
verbose than C# (and I don't think there's any argument that it does), but
the payoff is the code is much more concise.

I've heard people say that they like the C-style syntax of C# because it
creates more "elegant" code, but again that's a matter of preference.

As an example, terminating a statement with a semicolon allows you to write
a statement over multiple lines and be able to indicate to the compiler
where the statement actually terminates, but one missing semi-colon and you
could be in big trouble. VB 2010 now allows for multiple line statements
with no marker needed at all.

Which is better? There is no answer. It's simply a matter of preference
and "concise" is also a relative term.

Happy New Year!

-Scott


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