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From: BillW50 on 29 Jan 2010 20:37
~misfit~ wrote on Sat, 30 Jan 2010 13:47:49 +1300:
> Somewhere on teh intarwebs John Doue wrote:
>> On 1/29/2010 6:05 PM, BillW50 wrote:
>>> In news:hjukk5$dau$1(a)news.eternal-september.org,
>>> John Doue typed on Fri, 29 Jan 2010 14:34:13 +0200:
>>>> Hi,
>>>>
>>>> I realize this is not exactly the right place to ask the question,
>>>> but no one seems to have a clue on WindowsXP.general.
>>>>
>>>> On one of my machines (all have a nearly identical set-up), access
>>>> to the Start Menu various items is often slow (several seconds),
>>>> with hard disk activity (several seconds) before they display.
>>>>
>>>> Since I have 1.5 G of RAM, it is not an issue of lack of memory.
>>>> What can I do to make XP keep in memory the Start Menu and display
>>>> it instantly or almost, as on my other machines?
>>>>
>>>> Thanks for your pointers.
>>> Hi John, did you ever check Task Manager and check the CPU use? And
>>> if it goes up, see which process is causing this?
>>>
>>> It could be an uninstalled program that left stuff in the registry
>>> too. And careful with registry cleaners. As they remove important
>>> stuff if you are not careful.
>>>
>> Bill,
>>
>> No, it is trying to access the Start Menu items which causes the HD
>> "grinding". It is obviously reading information before it can display
>> it. IMHO, that information should be cached and not require reading
>> each time (or most often).
>
> Have a read of this John:
> http://kadaitcha.cx/performance.html#part1
> Might be worth trying, you can always reverse it.

And where I was going with this was... once we know it isn't using CPU
usage like an antivirus, anti-spyware, or who knows what. Then I would
flush the icon cache and perhaps the pagefile while you are at it. Say
how large is the drive and how full is it anyway? As a nearly full drive
will act this way too especially dealing with the swapfile.

Also, I don't know how many icons you have, but Windows has a set limit.
I don't remember, something like 400 or something for the icon cache. If
you have more, then the hard drive has to search for anything over and
it really gets slow looking for all of those tiny icons all over the
drive. Thus why the icon cache was invented in the first place. The
limit can be changed in the registry. Although I might have seen a
setting in the System Properties too. Might have been only there in an
earlier version.

--
Bill
Asus EEE PC 702G4 ~ 2GB RAM ~ 16GB-SDHC
Ubuntu 9.10 Netbook Remix
From: John Doue on 31 Jan 2010 03:18
On 1/30/2010 3:37 AM, BillW50 wrote:
> ~misfit~ wrote on Sat, 30 Jan 2010 13:47:49 +1300:
>> Somewhere on teh intarwebs John Doue wrote:
>>> On 1/29/2010 6:05 PM, BillW50 wrote:
>>>> In news:hjukk5$dau$1(a)news.eternal-september.org,
>>>> John Doue typed on Fri, 29 Jan 2010 14:34:13 +0200:
>>>>> Hi,
>>>>>
>>>>> I realize this is not exactly the right place to ask the question,
>>>>> but no one seems to have a clue on WindowsXP.general.
>>>>>
>>>>> On one of my machines (all have a nearly identical set-up), access
>>>>> to the Start Menu various items is often slow (several seconds),
>>>>> with hard disk activity (several seconds) before they display.
>>>>>
>>>>> Since I have 1.5 G of RAM, it is not an issue of lack of memory.
>>>>> What can I do to make XP keep in memory the Start Menu and display
>>>>> it instantly or almost, as on my other machines?
>>>>>
>>>>> Thanks for your pointers.
>>>> Hi John, did you ever check Task Manager and check the CPU use? And
>>>> if it goes up, see which process is causing this?
>>>>
>>>> It could be an uninstalled program that left stuff in the registry
>>>> too. And careful with registry cleaners. As they remove important
>>>> stuff if you are not careful.
>>>>
>>> Bill,
>>>
>>> No, it is trying to access the Start Menu items which causes the HD
>>> "grinding". It is obviously reading information before it can display
>>> it. IMHO, that information should be cached and not require reading
>>> each time (or most often).
>>
>> Have a read of this John:
>> http://kadaitcha.cx/performance.html#part1
>> Might be worth trying, you can always reverse it.
>
> And where I was going with this was... once we know it isn't using CPU
> usage like an antivirus, anti-spyware, or who knows what. Then I would
> flush the icon cache and perhaps the pagefile while you are at it. Say
> how large is the drive and how full is it anyway? As a nearly full drive
> will act this way too especially dealing with the swapfile.
>
> Also, I don't know how many icons you have, but Windows has a set limit.
> I don't remember, something like 400 or something for the icon cache. If
> you have more, then the hard drive has to search for anything over and
> it really gets slow looking for all of those tiny icons all over the
> drive. Thus why the icon cache was invented in the first place. The
> limit can be changed in the registry. Although I might have seen a
> setting in the System Properties too. Might have been only there in an
> earlier version.
>
Thanks Shaun and Bill for your help.

While I was waiting for it, I have changed the prefetch settings to
prefetch all and not only start-up items, thinking it could not hurt.
Well, it did not, but it seems to have solved the issue. Why and how, I
am not sure. Time will confirm, or not, this result. Just a first
impression.

I have plenty of disk space, so this was not the issue.

Following up on an obvious thing you mentioned Bill, I have increased
the icon cache ... Should have thought of it earlier. On my XP, default
is 500. I set to 2000.
Shaun, if DisablePagingExecutive is the same as Disable paging of
kernel, Xteq systems (very neat to alter settings less blindly) says no
to disable it if you use standby power functions (which I do, as most
people, I guess).

I will give some time to my machine to confirm the problem is solved. If
it proves to be, I will try disabling prefetch for programs to see if
the change in icon cache is actually sufficient. And if the problem
reappears, I will following Bill suggestion to check CPU usage, at first
I had not seen the point, now I do! Jetlag certainly (just flew from
Home Florida to Finland).

Thank you both for your kind help!




--
John Doue
From: BillW50 on 1 Feb 2010 13:55
In news:hk3ebr$33u$1(a)news.eternal-september.org,
John Doue typed on Sun, 31 Jan 2010 10:18:04 +0200:
> Thanks Shaun and Bill for your help.
>
> While I was waiting for it, I have changed the prefetch settings to
> prefetch all and not only start-up items, thinking it could not hurt.
> Well, it did not, but it seems to have solved the issue. Why and how,
> I am not sure. Time will confirm, or not, this result. Just a first
> impression.
>
> I have plenty of disk space, so this was not the issue.
>
> Following up on an obvious thing you mentioned Bill, I have increased
> the icon cache ... Should have thought of it earlier. On my XP,
> default is 500. I set to 2000.
> Shaun, if DisablePagingExecutive is the same as Disable paging of
> kernel, Xteq systems (very neat to alter settings less blindly) says
> no to disable it if you use standby power functions (which I do, as
> most people, I guess).
>
> I will give some time to my machine to confirm the problem is solved.
> If it proves to be, I will try disabling prefetch for programs to see
> if the change in icon cache is actually sufficient. And if the problem
> reappears, I will following Bill suggestion to check CPU usage, at
> first I had not seen the point, now I do! Jetlag certainly (just flew
> from Home Florida to Finland).
>
> Thank you both for your kind help!

Thanks for the update. And if you find anything new, let us know.

As for disabling paging, I do this on a number of my computers. This one
for example. I never had any problems with using standby or anything.
The only trick I know is to not let the free available RAM drop below
200MB. Otherwise I don't notice any difference between with it off or
on. Although I don't know why one would want to turn it off, unless to
gain more disk space or to eliminate unnecessary writing like on a SSD.

--
Bill
Asus EEE PC 702G8 ~ 2GB RAM ~ 16GB-SDHC
Windows XP SP2



From: ~misfit~ on 1 Feb 2010 18:34
Somewhere on teh intarwebs John Doue wrote:
> On 1/30/2010 3:37 AM, BillW50 wrote:
>> ~misfit~ wrote on Sat, 30 Jan 2010 13:47:49 +1300:
>>> Somewhere on teh intarwebs John Doue wrote:
>>>> On 1/29/2010 6:05 PM, BillW50 wrote:
>>>>> In news:hjukk5$dau$1(a)news.eternal-september.org,
>>>>> John Doue typed on Fri, 29 Jan 2010 14:34:13 +0200:
>>>>>> Hi,
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I realize this is not exactly the right place to ask the
>>>>>> question, but no one seems to have a clue on WindowsXP.general.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On one of my machines (all have a nearly identical set-up),
>>>>>> access to the Start Menu various items is often slow (several
>>>>>> seconds), with hard disk activity (several seconds) before they
>>>>>> display. Since I have 1.5 G of RAM, it is not an issue of lack of
>>>>>> memory.
>>>>>> What can I do to make XP keep in memory the Start Menu and
>>>>>> display it instantly or almost, as on my other machines?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Thanks for your pointers.
>>>>> Hi John, did you ever check Task Manager and check the CPU use?
>>>>> And if it goes up, see which process is causing this?
>>>>>
>>>>> It could be an uninstalled program that left stuff in the registry
>>>>> too. And careful with registry cleaners. As they remove important
>>>>> stuff if you are not careful.
>>>>>
>>>> Bill,
>>>>
>>>> No, it is trying to access the Start Menu items which causes the HD
>>>> "grinding". It is obviously reading information before it can
>>>> display it. IMHO, that information should be cached and not
>>>> require reading each time (or most often).
>>>
>>> Have a read of this John:
>>> http://kadaitcha.cx/performance.html#part1
>>> Might be worth trying, you can always reverse it.
>>
>> And where I was going with this was... once we know it isn't using
>> CPU usage like an antivirus, anti-spyware, or who knows what. Then I
>> would flush the icon cache and perhaps the pagefile while you are at
>> it. Say how large is the drive and how full is it anyway? As a
>> nearly full drive will act this way too especially dealing with the
>> swapfile. Also, I don't know how many icons you have, but Windows has a
>> set
>> limit. I don't remember, something like 400 or something for the
>> icon cache. If you have more, then the hard drive has to search for
>> anything over and it really gets slow looking for all of those tiny
>> icons all over the drive. Thus why the icon cache was invented in
>> the first place. The limit can be changed in the registry. Although
>> I might have seen a setting in the System Properties too. Might have
>> been only there in an earlier version.
>>
> Thanks Shaun and Bill for your help.

You're welcome.

> While I was waiting for it, I have changed the prefetch settings to
> prefetch all and not only start-up items, thinking it could not hurt.
> Well, it did not, but it seems to have solved the issue. Why and how,
> I am not sure. Time will confirm, or not, this result. Just a first
> impression.

Great that the issue seems to be solved! S'funny because not long ago I
essentially turned prefetch off (set it to 0) on my main machine in an
attempt to fix something or other. It doesn't seem to have slowed it down
any but then again it's a T60 with a T7400 C2D CPU, 3GB of RAM and a Seagate
7200rpm SATA HDD.

> I have plenty of disk space, so this was not the issue.
>
> Following up on an obvious thing you mentioned Bill, I have increased
> the icon cache ... Should have thought of it earlier. On my XP,
> default is 500. I set to 2000.
> Shaun, if DisablePagingExecutive is the same as Disable paging of
> kernel, Xteq systems (very neat to alter settings less blindly) says
> no to disable it if you use standby power functions (which I do, as
> most people, I guess).

Ahh, OK. My main machine (T60) is essentially used as a desktop (but using
much much less power and with a most excellent 1400 x 1050 IPS display) so I
have all 'power functions' turned off, or set to performance or 'desktop'. I
have it set to 'do nothing' when the lid is closed and have disabled
hibernate etc.

I have an R51 (also with a 1400x1050 IPS screen [these FlexView screens are
the shiznit, I'd hate to have to make do with a TN screen now] but with 2GB
of RAM) that I take out with me if I need a mobile device (although the T60
has the extended battery <shrug>).

> I will give some time to my machine to confirm the problem is solved.
> If it proves to be, I will try disabling prefetch for programs to see
> if the change in icon cache is actually sufficient. And if the problem
> reappears, I will following Bill suggestion to check CPU usage, at
> first I had not seen the point, now I do! Jetlag certainly (just flew
> from Home Florida to Finland).
>
> Thank you both for your kind help!

You're welcome John. I hope that you get over the jetlag soon. I'm told that
vodka helps. <g>
--
Cheers,
Shaun.

"Give a man a fire and he's warm for the day. But set fire to him and he's
warm for the rest of his life." Terry Pratchet, 'Jingo'.


From: John Doue on 2 Feb 2010 12:06
On 2/2/2010 1:34 AM, ~misfit~ wrote:
>
> Ahh, OK. My main machine (T60) is essentially used as a desktop (but using
> much much less power and with a most excellent 1400 x 1050 IPS display) so I
> have all 'power functions' turned off, or set to performance or 'desktop'. I
> have it set to 'do nothing' when the lid is closed and have disabled
> hibernate etc.
>
> I have an R51 (also with a 1400x1050 IPS screen [these FlexView screens are
> the shiznit, I'd hate to have to make do with a TN screen now] but with 2GB
> of RAM) that I take out with me if I need a mobile device (although the T60
> has the extended battery<shrug>).

No need to sell me the display: I have the exact same machine. I feel
sorry when I visit shows room, they no longer sell displays, but
mirrors. How can buyers accept that? Well, may be I am overestimating
their judgement ...
>
>> I will give some time to my machine to confirm the problem is solved.
>> If it proves to be, I will try disabling prefetch for programs to see
>> if the change in icon cache is actually sufficient. And if the problem
>> reappears, I will following Bill suggestion to check CPU usage, at
>> first I had not seen the point, now I do! Jetlag certainly (just flew
>> from Home Florida to Finland).
>>
>> Thank you both for your kind help!
>
> You're welcome John. I hope that you get over the jetlag soon. I'm told that
> vodka helps.<g>

Indeed, as does other hard stuff ... and removing snow from around my
house, we had almost 3' this night. Not a problem for you ...!

So far, my Start menu behaves. Thanks.
--
John Doue
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