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From: Betov on 21 Oct 2006 03:59 "sevag.krikorian(a)gmail.com" <sevag.krikorian(a)gmail.com> ?crivait news:1161409767.372613.299340(a)m7g2000cwm.googlegroups.com: > I use HLA exactly in this fashion and it makes > the code easier to maintain. Prove it. This is quite easy: You show us what is produced with your HLL Pre-Parser. Productivity is a _FACT_. I have listed above, a couple of links to some RosAsm users pages, showing their productions. Considering that HLA has 10 times more so called 'users' :)))))))) , where are their Applications? * Your window with a Menu (the one you call an IDE)... * The pathetic text mode game, that was collectively written right here for two years, by an idiot who never understood at what extend he had been duped... * ... and then?... > A couple points to add here though. > Anyone who uses macros in any assembler to emulate HLL statements is > also no longer programming in assembly (for example, Betov doesn't > program in assembly as is evident by the RosAsm code). Yet, when the > tool provides the powerful macros, many people are inclined to use them > as it makes programming and maintaining code much easier. In fact I > see so few people these days coding bare-metal. Even those tend to use > frame and invoke macros. I did not invent the words "Macro-Assembler", minion. Fact is that, as soon as the HLLisms are hidden inside a tool, this is _BY DEFINITION_ an HLL, and that when the exact same thing is achieved, by the user, through Macros, in Assembly, this is called Macro-Assembly. The only ones, here, who crually NEED to twist any defintion of what is what, are the HLA defenders, who want to call their HLL Pre-Parser an Assembler. Nothing else. From that point on, arase, _FASM_ from your HLA folder, and explain me what HLA is doing for you. Then, i will explain to you the reverse, that is, i arase everything in your HLA folder, but FASM, and i will show you what people can do with it. By the way, do you simply know what the FASM Macros System is able to do? Do you really believe that your HLA thingie could ever try to compete with this? Are you that stupid? Betov. < http://rosasm.org >
From: Herbert Kleebauer on 21 Oct 2006 13:40 Evenbit wrote: > FWIW, here is a program that demonstrates the difference between a > binary file and a character file -- when run, it creates two files and > you will know which one is binary and which one is character by their > respective file names: Maybe you can enlighten a non HLA user how this program demonstrates the difference between a binary file and a character file. > program binchar; > #include("stdlib.hhf") > > begin binchar; > > fileio.openNew("characterfile.txt"); > fileio.putc(eax, #30); > fileio.putc(eax, #31); > fileio.newln(eax); > fileio.close(eax); > > fileio.openNew("binaryfile.txt"); > fileio.putc(eax, #30); > fileio.putc(eax, #31); > fileio.newln(eax); > fileio.close(eax); > > end binchar; > > Nathan.
From: sevag.krikorian@gmail.com on 21 Oct 2006 19:45 On Oct 21, 3:59 am, Betov <b...(a)free.fr> wrote: > "sevag.krikor...(a)gmail.com" <sevag.krikor...(a)gmail.com> écrivaitnews:1161409767.372613.299340(a)m7g2000cwm.googlegroups.com: > > > I use HLA exactly in this fashion and it makes > > the code easier to maintain. >Prove it. This is quite easy: You show us what is produced > with your HLL Pre-Parser. Productivity is a _FACT_. The proof is in the code I've written. If anyone looks, they will see that I infact use most of the facilities provided by HLA; procedures, records, classes, etc. etc. I personally find code written in this way easier to maintain than my earlier work which was written mostly in low-level as I was learning assembly at that time. Of course, there are also plenty of research studies that prove structured code is easier to maintain. > I have listed above, a couple of links to some RosAsm users > pages, showing their productions. Considering that HLA has > 10 times more so called 'users' :)))))))) , where are their > Applications? We've been through this before. Most who use HLA and just about any other assembler program library code in support of their HLLs. The people who program actual applications that go beyond 'demo' in an assembly language are a minority. You can probably name them all on your fingers. > * Your window with a Menu (the one you call an IDE)... Unlike you, I'm not stuck on one project for my entire assembly programming career. Apart from my IDE, I have various other applications libraries and demos that have at least proven useful to some people. Here are some I have released to the public: HIDE khla kmake Arayna cCalc gen SavageEd hidelib guilib These are in various stages of completion/development and in varying degrees of usefulness. I have recieved compliments, encouragement and critisizm for each of these projects from those who find them useful. > * The pathetic text mode game, that was collectively written > right here for two years, by an idiot who never understood > at what extend he had been duped... Sadly, everyone is not able to easily grasp the concepts of assembly. Paul requires patience and were he still posting here, he would continue to get incouragement at least from myself because here is a basic programmer who found an interest in assembly and any such interest needs to be cultivated if assembly is to have any chance. Alas, you do everything in your power to prevent potential HLL converts from having an active interest in assembly. > > A couple points to add here though. > > Anyone who uses macros in any assembler to emulate HLL statements is > > also no longer programming in assembly (for example, Betov doesn't > > program in assembly as is evident by the RosAsm code). Yet, when the > > tool provides the powerful macros, many people are inclined to use them > > as it makes programming and maintaining code much easier. In fact I > > see so few people these days coding bare-metal. Even those tend to use > > frame and invoke macros. >I did not invent the words "Macro-Assembler", minion. No, you invented some other words like "pre-parser" > Fact is that, as soon as the HLLisms are hidden inside a tool, > this is _BY DEFINITION_ an HLL, and that when the exact same > thing is achieved, by the user, through Macros, in Assembly, > this is called Macro-Assembly. And as long as anyone uses HLLism using those macros, they are no longer programming in assembly. > The only ones, here, who crually NEED to twist any defintion > of what is what, are the HLA defenders, who want to call their > ... snip > > Betov. > > <http://rosasm.org> There is no need to twist any definition since we are not discussing definitions in this thread. Here is a cap of what's going on: 1.KiLVaiDeN is distressed that HLA users tend to use the facilities provided by HLA and when they do that, they are no longer programming in assembly. 2. I agreed and extended the logic to include those who use macro facilities in traditional assemblers which tends to be *most* of the current assembly programmers and who can blame them? Why use a sharpened stone when a steel axe is available? The ones who still program in "assembly" you can count on one hand. Let's see... Frank, Anne, Edgar (to some extent)... anyone else? 3.So here, two people are having a decent conversation when you barge in and "this is this and that is that....whaa!" Let go of your blind hatred and stay on topic, dude. The world has moved on... we miss you. sevag.k www.geocities.com/kahlinor
From: Evenbit on 22 Oct 2006 00:09 Herbert Kleebauer wrote: > Evenbit wrote: > > > FWIW, here is a program that demonstrates the difference between a > > binary file and a character file -- when run, it creates two files and > > you will know which one is binary and which one is character by their > > respective file names: > > Maybe you can enlighten a non HLA user how this program > demonstrates the difference between a binary file and a > character file. In all fairness to KiLVaiDeN, he pointed out the advantages of "binary" over "character" in terms of what Java has builtin support for. Just thought that I might spark the realization that a "character file" would be a subset of the "binary file" catagory. Suppose your program is getting input in the form of hexidecimal number strings. These contain only the characters "ABCDEF" and "0123456789" so we only need 16 binary numerals to represent them -- so, one character will fit in a nibble. Here we have the char-to-nibble table: A 0000 B 0001 C 0010 D 0011 E 0100 F 0101 0 0110 1 0111 2 1000 3 1001 4 1010 5 1011 6 1100 7 1101 8 1110 9 1111 By sending the numbers from this table to a file, we also save the characters. Thus, we have both a "character file" as well as a "binary file". While we are on the subject of nipples, I wonder where the lower portion of this character file is: http://home.comcast.net/~fbkotler/annie2.jpg Does hint of those beepers make you slobber too? :) Evenbit. P.S. - I might be a binary entity, but I'm also a character. {pun intended}
From: Betov on 22 Oct 2006 03:00
"sevag.krikorian(a)gmail.com" <sevag.krikorian(a)gmail.com> ?crivait news:1161474312.456201.261590(a)m73g2000cwd.googlegroups.com: >> * Your window with a Menu (the one you call an IDE)... > > Unlike you, I'm not stuck on one project for my entire assembly > programming career. Apart from my IDE, I have various other > applications libraries and demos that have at least proven useful to > some people. > Here are some I have released to the public: > HIDE > khla > kmake > Arayna > cCalc > gen > SavageEd > hidelib > guilib Still not even able to write a simple Source Editor for the "window with a menu", that you call an IDE? :) Also, when i claim something, i am used to provide _LINKS_, and _FACTS_. > These are in various stages of completion/development and in varying > degrees of usefulness. In other words: No real Application written with your HLL Pre-Parser. >> * The pathetic text mode game, that was collectively written >> right here for two years, by an idiot who never understood >> at what extend he had been duped... > > Sadly, everyone is not able to easily grasp the concepts of assembly. > Paul requires patience and were he still posting here, he would > continue to get incouragement at least from myself because here is a > basic programmer who found an interest in assembly and any such > interest needs to be cultivated if assembly is to have any chance. > Alas, you do everything in your power to prevent potential HLL > converts from having an active interest in assembly. He was the perfect example of the failure case of HLA. Period. You also are a good candidate, by the way. >> Fact is that, as soon as the HLLisms are hidden inside a tool, >> this is _BY DEFINITION_ an HLL, and that when the exact same >> thing is achieved, by the user, through Macros, in Assembly, >> this is called Macro-Assembly. > > And as long as anyone uses HLLism using those macros, they are no > longer programming in assembly. Minion, they are doing "Macro-Assembly", with a "Macros- Assembler", and i don't need to invent any definition for stating this. > Here is a cap of what's going on: > > 1.KiLVaiDeN is distressed that HLA users tend to use the facilities > provided by HLA and when they do that, they are no longer programming > in assembly. Exactly what you said you are doing. Right above. > 2. I agreed and extended the logic to include those who use macro > facilities in traditional assemblers which tends to be *most* of the > current assembly programmers and who can blame them? Why use a > sharpened stone when a steel axe is available? The ones who still > program in "assembly" you can count on one hand. Let's see... Frank, > Anne, Edgar (to some extent)... anyone else? Then, you are talking about "Symbolic Assembler" usage, excluding modern "Macros Symbolic Assembler". These are exactly the definitions. This still does not make any HLL Pre-Parser any "Macros Symbolic Assembler". > 3.So here, two people are having a decent conversation when you barge > in and "this is this and that is that....whaa!" Let go of your blind > hatred and stay on topic, dude. The world has moved on... we miss > you. You understand it or not, minion, ALA is completely overflown by guys who have never, - and who will never - write any Application in Assembly, and who, therefore, will never be Assembly Programmers. You belong to this sad majority. Nothing new. Betov. < http://rosasm.org > |