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From: Ken S. Tucker on 21 Dec 2009 00:50
On Dec 20, 6:49 pm, George Herold <ggher...(a)gmail.com> wrote:
> ehsjr wrote:
> > Friends are home-schooling their son.
>
> > I get to teach him 4th grade science: static electricity,
> > magnetism, complete circuits, that sort of thing. There is
> > a very general state provided syllabus, which I regard as
> > a minimum.
>
> > Any thoughts, tips, techniques, hints? I haven't taught
> > 4th graders (9-10 years old) before, so I don't have a
> > feel for attention span, quickness of apprehension, how
> > much or how long to focus on one point or one subject
> > before switching to retain the interest, and a whole
> > host of things I probably haven't thought of.
>
> > There are propbably some great attention grabing experiments
> > or demos, too. I have some ideas along those lines, and
> > ideas from others would be helpful.
>
> > I do plan to discuss these things with the parents to get
> > their advice, and I will have them determine how long
> > each session is to run, with a +/- 5 or ten minutes so
> > we can complete experiments/demos/lessons scheduled
> > for each particular session. I'll also have them determine
> > how often we get together. There is plenty of flexibility
> > available, and I do not think I have the capability of
> > determining how much structure is best, so that flexibility
> > might be a two edged sword. Comments along that line
> > would also be valuable.
>
> > So, if you have ideas, I would appreciate hearing them!
>
> > Thanks,
> > Ed
>
> Scotch tape is great for some static electricity experiments. When
> you stick it and then pull it off of different things it picks up
> different sign charges. (Try glass, metal, plastic….list is endless).
> You can then use the two pieces of tape as the electrodes of a ‘leaf’
> electrometer. Hold them close and see if they attract or repel. (you
> want about 2" long pieces, I’m sure there’s all sorts of stuff on the
> web.)
>
> For magnetics it’s fun to float a magnet in a bowl of water,
> (Styrofoam ?) and make a compass, Then you can bring other magnets
> near and see what happens.
> I always try and have the kids write things down. (I like doing
> 'science stuff' with my kids, "How far can you shoot this rubber
> band?, what's the best angle to shoot it at?")
>
> Light bulbs and batteries are great to start circuits. LED’s...
>
> George H.

Some of my fav's are the reciprical action of how a simple speaker
can make sound, but also act as a generator (mic).
Another is making wee electric cars, and doing all the conversions to
go from Watts to horsepower then torque and acceleration, by
measuring amps and volts, that's good physics.
Ken
From: D from BC on 21 Dec 2009 02:37
On Sun, 20 Dec 2009 18:49:39 -0800 (PST), George Herold
<ggherold(a)gmail.com> wrote:

>
>
>ehsjr wrote:
>> Friends are home-schooling their son.
>>
>> I get to teach him 4th grade science: static electricity,
>> magnetism, complete circuits, that sort of thing. There is
>> a very general state provided syllabus, which I regard as
>> a minimum.
>>
>> Any thoughts, tips, techniques, hints? I haven't taught
>> 4th graders (9-10 years old) before, so I don't have a
>> feel for attention span, quickness of apprehension, how
>> much or how long to focus on one point or one subject
>> before switching to retain the interest, and a whole
>> host of things I probably haven't thought of.
>>
>> There are propbably some great attention grabing experiments
>> or demos, too. I have some ideas along those lines, and
>> ideas from others would be helpful.
>>
>> I do plan to discuss these things with the parents to get
>> their advice, and I will have them determine how long
>> each session is to run, with a +/- 5 or ten minutes so
>> we can complete experiments/demos/lessons scheduled
>> for each particular session. I'll also have them determine
>> how often we get together. There is plenty of flexibility
>> available, and I do not think I have the capability of
>> determining how much structure is best, so that flexibility
>> might be a two edged sword. Comments along that line
>> would also be valuable.
>>
>> So, if you have ideas, I would appreciate hearing them!
>>
>> Thanks,
>> Ed
>
>Scotch tape is great for some static electricity experiments. When
>you stick it and then pull it off of different things it picks up
>different sign charges. (Try glass, metal, plastic�.list is endless).
>You can then use the two pieces of tape as the electrodes of a �leaf�
>electrometer. Hold them close and see if they attract or repel. (you
>want about 2" long pieces, I�m sure there�s all sorts of stuff on the
>web.)
>
>For magnetics it�s fun to float a magnet in a bowl of water,
>(Styrofoam ?) and make a compass, Then you can bring other magnets
>near and see what happens.
>I always try and have the kids write things down. (I like doing
>'science stuff' with my kids, "How far can you shoot this rubber
>band?, what's the best angle to shoot it at?")
>
>Light bulbs and batteries are great to start circuits. LED�s...
>
>George H.

Moving cereal with a magnet.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NhfuLxLy844&feature=related

From: Martin Brown on 21 Dec 2009 10:42
Joerg wrote:
> Ken S. Tucker wrote:
>> On Dec 18, 7:52 pm, ehsjr <eh...(a)nospamverizon.net> wrote:
>>> Friends are home-schooling their son.
>>>
>>> I get to teach him 4th grade science: static electricity,
>>> magnetism, complete circuits, that sort of thing. There is
>>> a very general state provided syllabus, which I regard as
>>> a minimum.

Is there an external examination to be passed at some stage?

Static electricity, magnetism, simple binary logic with switches are all
easy and safe to do. Even making a simple motor. I wouldn't recommend
Maxwell's spur for instance - at least not using mercury!!!

How far you get depends on how bright the child is. You might have
trouble if he just isn't interested or simply cannot grasp the subject.
>>
>> Find out the kids IQ, without his knowledge. Use standardized
>> tests or various puzzles. An accelerating IQ is usually the
>> result of inherent curiousity, in which case you can access
>> the foundations of electronics in physics, via experiment,
>> such as Ohm's Law.

Any of the basic puzzle type tests will give you a quick idea as will a
quick game of chess, othello or draughts.

Quick test of genius is ask him to draw an ellipse given a length of
string, a board, some pins and a pencil. You need to get some idea of
his mathematical aptitude since that will affect how you teach science.

Provided you keep learning fun you are half way there.
>
> Careful with standardizing and categorizing. I had the "pleasure" of
> doing numerous management style quizzes along the lines of Myers-Briggs
> and similar. Came out different every time and the results had very
> little bearing on the real person I was (according to others, not me).
> Bottomline I have very little faith in this stuff.

Curiosity, IQ and even better some of the pattern matching visual tests
are an extremely good predictor for certain skills. They don't predict
success though - I know at least one failed genius. The other problem is
that the standard multiple choice IQ tests will fail if put up against a
true genius who can find multiple right answers and deliberately chooses
the perverse one. For example what is the next number in the sequence :

1 2 4 8 16 (a) 29 (b) 30 (c) 31 (d) 32 (e) 33

The examiner expects (d) 32, but a perverse genius will answer (c) 31
See GEB or
http://akpublic.research.att.com/~njas/sequences/?q=1%2C2%2C4%2C8%2C16%2C&sort=0&fmt=0&language=english
You could also make a strong case for answering (b) 30 too! (or 77, 20)

Myers-Briggs sort of works provided you don't play the system, but HR
people place far too much emphasis on these pseudo-random numbers.

Regards,
Martin Brown
From: Tim Wescott on 21 Dec 2009 11:34
On Sat, 19 Dec 2009 07:12:50 +0000, IanM wrote:

> Tim Wescott wrote:
>> On Fri, 18 Dec 2009 22:52:59 -0500, ehsjr wrote:
>>
>>> Friends are home-schooling their son.
>>>
>>> I get to teach him 4th grade science: static electricity, magnetism,
>>> complete circuits, that sort of thing. There is a very general state
>>> provided syllabus, which I regard as a minimum.
>>>
>>> Any thoughts, tips, techniques, hints? I haven't taught 4th graders
>>> (9-10 years old) before, so I don't have a feel for attention span,
>>> quickness of apprehension, how much or how long to focus on one point
>>> or one subject before switching to retain the interest, and a whole
>>> host of things I probably haven't thought of.
>>>
>>> There are propbably some great attention grabing experiments or demos,
>>> too. I have some ideas along those lines, and ideas from others would
>>> be helpful.
>>>
>>> I do plan to discuss these things with the parents to get their
>>> advice, and I will have them determine how long each session is to
>>> run, with a +/- 5 or ten minutes so we can complete
>>> experiments/demos/lessons scheduled for each particular session. I'll
>>> also have them determine how often we get together. There is plenty
>>> of flexibility available, and I do not think I have the capability of
>>> determining how much structure is best, so that flexibility might be a
>>> two edged sword. Comments along that line would also be valuable.
>>>
>>> So, if you have ideas, I would appreciate hearing them!
>>>
>>> Thanks,
>>> Ed
>>
>> Attention span, quickness of apprehension, all that, is going to vary
>> widely by kid, by subject, and by how interesting you are.
>>
>> Fortunately you have a really good teacher/student ratio.
>>
>> I'd suggest that you try to frame as much of it as you can as 'play',
>> and to the extent that you can (if he shows any interest at all), let
>> him guide it. If he says "hey, let's go throw rocks at trees', go
>> throw rocks at trees, and discuss Newtonian mechanics. Get some
>> flashlight bulbs and some batteries, and work at completing those
>> circuits.
>>
>> Expect to be disappointed, amazed, bored, dissed, admired, etc.
>>
> By that age I was already into electronics. IIRC simple battery powered
> audio and radio circuits with a couple of transistors. All
> breadboarded (literally - wooden board, steel screws, brass cup
> washers). I learnt to solder a couple of years later. Whether I would
> have got interested in electronics after home computers arrives is
> another issue.
>
> I did a lot better in academic subjects that I needed to support my
> hobby . . .
>
> Show him some cool stuff, get him 'hooked' then explain where this
> seasons lessons fit in what he will need to learn to do it himself. ;-)
>
> Beware of attention grabbing demos. If it isn't safe enough to permit a
> hands on experiment . . . . . .

Yea, match head rockets are such a good physics demo, otherwise.

--
www.wescottdesign.com
From: Phil Hobbs on 21 Dec 2009 14:12
Martin Brown wrote:
> Joerg wrote:
>> Ken S. Tucker wrote:
>>> On Dec 18, 7:52 pm, ehsjr <eh...(a)nospamverizon.net> wrote:
>>>> Friends are home-schooling their son.
>>>>
>>>> I get to teach him 4th grade science: static electricity,
>>>> magnetism, complete circuits, that sort of thing. There is
>>>> a very general state provided syllabus, which I regard as
>>>> a minimum.
>
> Is there an external examination to be passed at some stage?
>
> Static electricity, magnetism, simple binary logic with switches are all
> easy and safe to do. Even making a simple motor. I wouldn't recommend
> Maxwell's spur for instance - at least not using mercury!!!
>
> How far you get depends on how bright the child is. You might have
> trouble if he just isn't interested or simply cannot grasp the subject.
>>>
>>> Find out the kids IQ, without his knowledge. Use standardized
>>> tests or various puzzles. An accelerating IQ is usually the
>>> result of inherent curiousity, in which case you can access
>>> the foundations of electronics in physics, via experiment,
>>> such as Ohm's Law.
>
> Any of the basic puzzle type tests will give you a quick idea as will a
> quick game of chess, othello or draughts.
>
> Quick test of genius is ask him to draw an ellipse given a length of
> string, a board, some pins and a pencil. You need to get some idea of
> his mathematical aptitude since that will affect how you teach science.
>
> Provided you keep learning fun you are half way there.
>>
>> Careful with standardizing and categorizing. I had the "pleasure" of
>> doing numerous management style quizzes along the lines of
>> Myers-Briggs and similar. Came out different every time and the
>> results had very little bearing on the real person I was (according to
>> others, not me). Bottomline I have very little faith in this stuff.
>
> Curiosity, IQ and even better some of the pattern matching visual tests
> are an extremely good predictor for certain skills. They don't predict
> success though - I know at least one failed genius. The other problem is
> that the standard multiple choice IQ tests will fail if put up against a
> true genius who can find multiple right answers and deliberately chooses
> the perverse one. For example what is the next number in the sequence :
>
> 1 2 4 8 16 (a) 29 (b) 30 (c) 31 (d) 32 (e) 33
>
> The examiner expects (d) 32, but a perverse genius will answer (c) 31
> See GEB or
> http://akpublic.research.att.com/~njas/sequences/?q=1%2C2%2C4%2C8%2C16%2C&sort=0&fmt=0&language=english
>
> You could also make a strong case for answering (b) 30 too! (or 77, 20)
>
> Myers-Briggs sort of works provided you don't play the system, but HR
> people place far too much emphasis on these pseudo-random numbers.
>
> Regards,
> Martin Brown

You don't have to be a genius, just smarter than the examiner. Given
that writing IQ tests probably isn't the most fulfilling work ever, you
really don't have to be that smart to fall into those sorts of problems.

Cheers

Phil Hobbs

--
Dr Philip C D Hobbs
Principal
ElectroOptical Innovations
55 Orchard Rd
Briarcliff Manor NY 10510
845-480-2058
hobbs at electrooptical dot net
http://electrooptical.net
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