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From: Wild_Bill on 14 Mar 2010 09:58
Failure of electrolytic caps in fairly new equipment is nothing new, and has
actually become common as manufacurers try using cheaper components to
attain the highest profits.

The throwaway society has been in development for decades. Every year
products are made to new lower quality standards, with the intended effect
of lowering everyone's expectations of any reliability or quality, IMO.

But typical shoppers just love those $30 DVD players, and can't get enough
of 'em.

It seems that the counterfeit electrolyte story will never go away, as
someone always has to mention it almost any time capacitors are discussed.

Manufacturers choose to build equipment with capacitors that are minimumally
acceptable for the circuits the caps are used in.
It's not that there aren't any quality caps with adequate specifications,
the problem is that better quality caps cost more.

I think about 2 years of proper operation for new consumer electronic gear,
is probably about the average lifetime before repair or replacement is
required.

The higher priced consumer goods (big plasma TVs, etc) are probably going to
be a bit more reliable since a large outraged consumer group might get into
class action, but probably not many would call their elected representatives
or a consumer watchdog group for a $40 to $200 item that fails to work in a
year.
Then again, the retailer or manufacturer might just say that the buyer
should've bought the extended warranty.

The consumer is always the one that gets to find out how long a product will
last.

--
Cheers,
WB
..............


"Joe" <none(a)given.now> wrote in message
news:none-1303101837300001(a)dialup-4.231.174.138.dial1.losangeles1.level3.net...
>I bought a Philips DVP 642 DVD player in December 2005, and 2 months shy
> of 2 years, it failed - having symptoms of a well-known problem with a
> certain capacitor in the power supply.
>
> Well before the problem occurred, I had come across a description of the
> failure and how to fix it by replacing a particular capacitor on the power
> supply board.
>
> It turns out that the particular capacitor supposedly would likely be
> leaking some electrolyte or be bulging - it was doing neither.
>
> When I opened up the player and left it turned on for a few minutes, that
> particular capacitor became very much hotter than any other capacitor, so
> I replaced it, and the player is still working now, some two years later.
>
> A couple of years ago, I bought a Digital Stream DTX9900 digital to analog
> converter box for my old TV. Son of a ... it too failed at about the 22
> month mark. I opened up the case, and there it was - a bulging capacitor
> on the power supply board.
>
> I replaced that capacitor a couple of weeks ago, and the converter has
> since been working.
>
> Anybody else noticed any coincidences like these? About the only
> similarity in use between these two boxes is that they both are on
> "stand-by" power 24-7. Other than that, I use the converter a lot more
> than the DVD player.
>
> --- Joe

From: Jamie on 14 Mar 2010 11:29
Joe wrote:

> I bought a Philips DVP 642 DVD player in December 2005, and 2 months shy
> of 2 years, it failed - having symptoms of a well-known problem with a
> certain capacitor in the power supply.
>
> Well before the problem occurred, I had come across a description of the
> failure and how to fix it by replacing a particular capacitor on the power
> supply board.
>
> It turns out that the particular capacitor supposedly would likely be
> leaking some electrolyte or be bulging - it was doing neither.
>
> When I opened up the player and left it turned on for a few minutes, that
> particular capacitor became very much hotter than any other capacitor, so
> I replaced it, and the player is still working now, some two years later.
>
> A couple of years ago, I bought a Digital Stream DTX9900 digital to analog
> converter box for my old TV. Son of a ... it too failed at about the 22
> month mark. I opened up the case, and there it was - a bulging capacitor
> on the power supply board.
>
> I replaced that capacitor a couple of weeks ago, and the converter has
> since been working.
>
> Anybody else noticed any coincidences like these? About the only
> similarity in use between these two boxes is that they both are on
> "stand-by" power 24-7. Other than that, I use the converter a lot more
> than the DVD player.
>
> --- Joe
They call that market research! Built in obsolescence.



From: Arfa Daily on 14 Mar 2010 11:43
>
> "Joe" <none(a)given.now> wrote in message
> news:none-1303101837300001(a)dialup-4.231.174.138.dial1.losangeles1.level3.net...
>>I bought a Philips DVP 642 DVD player in December 2005, and 2 months shy
>> of 2 years, it failed - having symptoms of a well-known problem with a
>> certain capacitor in the power supply.
>>
>> Well before the problem occurred, I had come across a description of the
>> failure and how to fix it by replacing a particular capacitor on the
>> power
>> supply board.
>>
>> It turns out that the particular capacitor supposedly would likely be
>> leaking some electrolyte or be bulging - it was doing neither.
>>
>> When I opened up the player and left it turned on for a few minutes, that
>> particular capacitor became very much hotter than any other capacitor, so
>> I replaced it, and the player is still working now, some two years later.
>>
>> A couple of years ago, I bought a Digital Stream DTX9900 digital to
>> analog
>> converter box for my old TV. Son of a ... it too failed at about the 22
>> month mark. I opened up the case, and there it was - a bulging capacitor
>> on the power supply board.
>>
>> I replaced that capacitor a couple of weeks ago, and the converter has
>> since been working.
>>
>> Anybody else noticed any coincidences like these? About the only
>> similarity in use between these two boxes is that they both are on
>> "stand-by" power 24-7. Other than that, I use the converter a lot more
>> than the DVD player.
>>
>> --- Joe
>


"Wild_Bill" <wb_wildbill(a)XSPAMyahoo.com> wrote in message
news:YX5nn.68659$Jq1.44712(a)en-nntp-05.dc1.easynews.com...
> Failure of electrolytic caps in fairly new equipment is nothing new, and
> has actually become common as manufacurers try using cheaper components to
> attain the highest profits.
>
> The throwaway society has been in development for decades. Every year
> products are made to new lower quality standards, with the intended effect
> of lowering everyone's expectations of any reliability or quality, IMO.
>
> But typical shoppers just love those $30 DVD players, and can't get enough
> of 'em.
>
> It seems that the counterfeit electrolyte story will never go away, as
> someone always has to mention it almost any time capacitors are discussed.
>
> Manufacturers choose to build equipment with capacitors that are
> minimumally acceptable for the circuits the caps are used in.
> It's not that there aren't any quality caps with adequate specifications,
> the problem is that better quality caps cost more.
>
> I think about 2 years of proper operation for new consumer electronic
> gear, is probably about the average lifetime before repair or replacement
> is required.
>
> The higher priced consumer goods (big plasma TVs, etc) are probably going
> to be a bit more reliable since a large outraged consumer group might get
> into class action, but probably not many would call their elected
> representatives or a consumer watchdog group for a $40 to $200 item that
> fails to work in a year.
> Then again, the retailer or manufacturer might just say that the buyer
> should've bought the extended warranty.
>
> The consumer is always the one that gets to find out how long a product
> will last.
>
> --
> Cheers,
> WB
> .............
>


100% agrrement on everything everyone has said. It's just par for the
course, I'm afraid. I replace probably 5 - 10 electrolytics in switchmode
power supplies every week. As others have said, it's not that there are not
caps adequately rated for the job - I use them as replacements. It's just
that a 105 degree low ESR cap with a 30% voltage margin, is a lot more
expensive than an 80 degree bog standard type, with a 5% voltage margin, so
the manufacturers use the cheapest one that will get them through the
warranty period. It's a consumer driven thing really. If you want a $30
no-name Walmart DVD player, then the people who make them for Walmart, are
going to have to use the cheapest components they can find. The fact that
the OP's machine was a Philips, that might be considered a 'good' name, no
longer holds water either. For some time now, Philips gear has not had the
same quality 'hallmark' as it did here in Europe, as little as 10 years ago
....

Arfa


From: D Yuniskis on 14 Mar 2010 15:07
Wild_Bill wrote:
> Manufacturers choose to build equipment with capacitors that are
> minimumally acceptable for the circuits the caps are used in.
> It's not that there aren't any quality caps with adequate
> specifications, the problem is that better quality caps cost more.

I started noticing a lot of El Cheapie DVD players failing
*real* quick. ALARMINGLY so! Since they were "disposable",
I never thought much of it.

One day took one apart. 6.3V caps on a 10V (?) line...

> I think about 2 years of proper operation for new consumer electronic
> gear, is probably about the average lifetime before repair or
> replacement is required.
>
> The higher priced consumer goods (big plasma TVs, etc) are probably
> going to be a bit more reliable since a large outraged consumer group
> might get into class action, but probably not many would call their
> elected representatives or a consumer watchdog group for a $40 to $200
> item that fails to work in a year.

Class action lawsuits don't usually amount to much -- besides
a chance for some lawyer to make a tidy sum by doing nothing.
Wasn't Gateway sued over one (all?) of their ($$$K) plasma sets
a few years ago?

From: bob urz on 14 Mar 2010 15:19
D Yuniskis wrote:
> Wild_Bill wrote:
>> Manufacturers choose to build equipment with capacitors that are
>> minimumally acceptable for the circuits the caps are used in.
>> It's not that there aren't any quality caps with adequate
>> specifications, the problem is that better quality caps cost more.
>
> I started noticing a lot of El Cheapie DVD players failing
> *real* quick. ALARMINGLY so! Since they were "disposable",
> I never thought much of it.
>
> One day took one apart. 6.3V caps on a 10V (?) line...
>
>> I think about 2 years of proper operation for new consumer electronic
>> gear, is probably about the average lifetime before repair or
>> replacement is required.
>>
>> The higher priced consumer goods (big plasma TVs, etc) are probably
>> going to be a bit more reliable since a large outraged consumer group
>> might get into class action, but probably not many would call their
>> elected representatives or a consumer watchdog group for a $40 to $200
>> item that fails to work in a year.
>
> Class action lawsuits don't usually amount to much -- besides
> a chance for some lawyer to make a tidy sum by doing nothing.
> Wasn't Gateway sued over one (all?) of their ($$$K) plasma sets
> a few years ago?
>

Its a different world now. 25 years ago brand names meant something and
manufacturers would want to protect there reputation.

These days, much of the cheap stuff is no name junk that you would be
lucky to get parts or manuals for if at all. they really don't care as
long as it works out of the box. So what if the name you never heard of
is tarnished? they will just get a new name and go on and sell millions
at your favorite discount store and wallmart.

There may be customer expectations on lifetime, but other than the
factory warranty there is no implied life expectations.

There is no money in fixing this junk unless your doing it out of your
house and selling it on craigs list as a hobby.

bob
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