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From: Richard Maher on 27 Nov 2009 22:44
Hi Bob,

"beegee" <bgulian(a)gmail.com> wrote in message
news:7aceba43-77db-438f-94c0-396dd81849c4(a)j24g2000yqa.googlegroups.com...
> On Nov 25, 4:04 am, David Mark <dmark.cins...(a)gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > Realize that lazy loading of scripts is often indicative of lazy
> > programmers trying to hide that they are using much too general (and
> > therefore bloated) scripts. Or it may be Ajax-itis (the compelling
> > need to cram every app into one document).
>
> I think this was a *lazy* reply. There is a compelling case to be
> made to a web user experience that resembles a stand-alone
> application. Users generally get nervous when they are directed off
> the home page. Even web 2.0 experiences like Facebook (basically 2
> pages) are confusing to many. Now, Ajax in it's current state may not
> be the way to get to the one-page application but the trend is to get
> there.
>

Seeing as some in this thread are seeking to draw the battle lines
between: -
a) Single-Page applications
and
b) a love afair with back-button optimation and browser history

let me add my 2cents and introduce a 3rd option: -
c) Multi-Tab, Single-Browser-Instance applications with JAVA Applets,
singletons and static class variables providing the inter-tab communication
and application-global memory.

Regardless of the concerted attempts of Microsoft and Google, and the not
insignificant prejudices of many here, I can't help seeing such a
feature-rich development and deployment environment growing exponentially!
(Especially since 6.10 and multipe-threads and cross-domain policy files,
(although I'd give JNLP deployment a big miss!))
>
> Bob

Cheers Richard Maher

PS. Now if we only had a reliable mechanism come API for guaranteeing a
page would be opened in a new tab in the same browser instance then that
would really help me out a lot! Is it there and I just can't find it? With
the amount of absolute bollocks to emerge from HTML5 surely something as
useful as TAB-management syntax could have got a guernsey?

PPS. And how the hell could they outlaw Frames???

PPPS. Don't forget to stick that ONUNLOAD event in every page you can! Let's
consign that back-button optimization to history :-)


From: David Mark on 27 Nov 2009 22:58
On Nov 27, 10:44 pm, "Richard Maher" <maher...(a)hotspamnotmail.com>
wrote:
> Hi Bob,
>
> "beegee" <bgul...(a)gmail.com> wrote in message
>
> news:7aceba43-77db-438f-94c0-396dd81849c4(a)j24g2000yqa.googlegroups.com...
>
> > On Nov 25, 4:04 am, David Mark <dmark.cins...(a)gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > > Realize that lazy loading of scripts is often indicative of lazy
> > > programmers trying to hide that they are using much too general (and
> > > therefore bloated) scripts.  Or it may be Ajax-itis (the compelling
> > > need to cram every app into one document).
>
> > I think this was a *lazy* reply.  There is a compelling case to be
> > made to a web user experience that resembles a stand-alone
> > application.  Users generally get nervous when they are directed off
> > the home page.  Even web 2.0 experiences like Facebook (basically 2
> > pages) are confusing to many.  Now, Ajax in it's current state may not
> > be the way to get to the one-page application but the trend is to get
> > there.
>
> Seeing as some in this thread are seeking to draw the battle lines
> between: -
> a) Single-Page applications
> and
> b) a love afair with back-button optimation and browser history
>

Nobody is drawing those lines (and if I understand you, they are not
mutually exclusive either). Context is what matters. Some apps make
sense as a single document and there is no reason for any app to foul
up navigation. I see GG recently figured out the latter point.
From: Jorge on 28 Nov 2009 02:37
On Nov 28, 4:58 am, David Mark <dmark.cins...(a)gmail.com> wrote:
> (...) Some apps make
> sense as a single document and there is no reason for any app to foul
> up navigation.  (...)

For single page apps, in an attempt to link app's state <->
location.hash, I've found at least one reason: that hash changes don't
necessarily trigger an event.
--
Jorge.
From: Richard Maher on 28 Nov 2009 03:20
Hi Jorge,

> there is no reason for any app to foul
> up navigation

And no navigation will be "fouled", just de-emphasised and de-optimized.

> that hash changes don't
> necessarily trigger an event.

Reason ii) It really trashes the normal lifecycle of Applets

So to all xenophobic, nervous-Nellies, clinging to the perceived security of
yesteryear, I say "Burn your bridges, your boats and anything else that
detracts from the now!" or maybe "This is the web-page; there are no other
pages!" :-)

Cheers Richard Maher

"Jorge" <jorge(a)jorgechamorro.com> wrote in message
news:595004d7-7f3b-4a05-ac55-c7c80bb5a9c0(a)u7g2000yqm.googlegroups.com...
On Nov 28, 4:58 am, David Mark <dmark.cins...(a)gmail.com> wrote:
> (...) Some apps make
> sense as a single document and there is no reason for any app to foul
> up navigation. (...)

For single page apps, in an attempt to link app's state <->
location.hash, I've found at least one reason: that hash changes don't
necessarily trigger an event.
--
Jorge.


From: David Mark on 28 Nov 2009 04:02
On Nov 28, 2:37 am, Jorge <jo...(a)jorgechamorro.com> wrote:
> On Nov 28, 4:58 am, David Mark <dmark.cins...(a)gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > (...) Some apps make
> > sense as a single document and there is no reason for any app to foul
> > up navigation.  (...)
>
> For single page apps, in an attempt to link app's state <->
> location.hash, I've found at least one reason: that hash changes don't
> necessarily trigger an event.

Who told you to do that? I know it is popular to try to make single
pages look like multiple by screwing around with the hash, which must
confuse the users who are used to single page apps. :)

In any event, it's a bad design and there's no reason to do it at all
(except in the heads of some Web developers).
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