The Emission Theory of Androcles
in [Relativity]
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From: Androcles on 17 Sep 2009 14:05 "Henry Wilson, DSc" <hw@..> wrote in message news:vup4b5pantfl79t0e50vjp5tg6m3q0l82i(a)4ax.com... > On Thu, 17 Sep 2009 03:19:31 -0700 (PDT), Jerry > <Cephalobus_alienus(a)comcast.net> wrote: > >>On Sep 17, 3:44 am, hw@..(Henry Wilson, DSc) wrote: >>> On Wed, 16 Sep 2009 23:32:16 -0700 (PDT), Jerry >>> <Cephalobus_alie...(a)comcast.net> wrote: >>> >On Sep 16, 9:50 pm, hw@..(Henry Wilson, DSc) wrote: >>> >>> >> A BLOODY RING GYRO MEASURES ABSOLUTE ROTATION ANGLES BY INTEGRATING >>> >> FRINGE >>> >> MOVEMENT DURING A CHANGE IN ROTATIONAL SPEED. THE FRINGE DISPLACEMENT >>> >> PERFORMS >>> >> THE INTEGRATION AUTOMATICALLY. >>> >>> >Very poor choice of words. Fringe displacement is proportional >>> >to rotational speed, and ny integrating the fringe displacement >>> >over time, one may obtain the rotation angle. >>> >>> >The term "fringe movement" implies the first derivative of fringe >>> >displacement, and "a change in rotational speed" of course means >>> >rotational acceleration. The integral of "fringe movement" is >>> >fringe displacement, which of course is proportional to >>> >rotational speed. >>> >>> >By confusing your terminology while yelling, you leave the >>> >distinct impression that you are mixed up. >>> >>> >Which of course you are... >>> >>> Great try Jerry. >>> I realise you didn't want to say straight out that 'inertial' is a >>> complette >>> idiot because she is on YOUR side. >>> But even YOU must admit that her claim, quote: " there's no speed >>> changing in >>> Sagnac. It rotates at a constant rate" truly epitomises the sad state of >>> the >>> relativist mentality. >> >>Henri, Inertial was discussing the Sagnac EXPERIMENT, when, >>completely unannounced, you suddenly started referring to the >>capabilities of modern IFOGs. >> >>In his original experiment, Sagnac typically spun his apparatus >>at 1- to 2+ times per second, recording displacements of several >>hundredths of a fringe. >>http://gallica.bnf.fr/ark:/12148/bpt6k31103.pleinepage.f1410 > > Is your "1- to 2+ times per second" a constant speed? > > Both you and inertial don't seem to understand yat the fringes only MOVE > during > a speed change. The displacement at any CONSTANT speed can only be > determined > by counting the 'number of fringe widths' a particular fringe moves > sideways > DURING a speed change. > >>This is a far cry from modern fibre optic gyros and ring gyros >>used in inertial guidance systems, which are capable of detecting >>rotational rates down to 0.00001 degree per hour. > > Please tell Andro why they use lots of turns. Bwahahaha! Jeery's been plonked, Wilson. You are the only troll I feed because you've been domesticated, a kind of pet. You still have these wild, feral urges to have your own crackpot theory, though, and it amuses me to see you shouting. > Laser systems modulate the signal > to get a more sensitive AC output. Bwahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha! Here, try this: http://www.sensodyne.co.uk/index.html >>Sagnac's original apparatus could not possibly have been used for >>monitoring one's heading in an inertial guidance system. So yes, >>it is not he, but YOU who is either being massively dishonest >>in changing the premises of the discussion, or is simply confused. I go halfway with Jeery. You, Wilson, are simply confused; you are too stupid or drunk to be massively dishonest. > inertial made the statement that 'ring gyros never change rotation speed'. > that was the stupidest thing she has uttered yet and proves she doesn't > have a > clue what she's talking about. Maybe she doesn't, I don't bother with feral trolls. <shrug> Obviously no optical gyrocompass is going to mechanically rotate indefinitely the way a mechanical one does or they'd have no advantage. >> >>Which is it? >> >>Jerry > > > Henry Wilson...www.users.bigpond.com/hewn/index.htm > > Einstein...World's greatest SciFi writer..
From: Henry Wilson, DSc on 17 Sep 2009 17:42 On Thu, 17 Sep 2009 19:05:54 +0100, "Androcles" <Headmaster(a)Hogwarts.physics_o> wrote: > >"Henry Wilson, DSc" <hw@..> wrote in message >news:vup4b5pantfl79t0e50vjp5tg6m3q0l82i(a)4ax.com... >> On Thu, 17 Sep 2009 03:19:31 -0700 (PDT), Jerry >> <Cephalobus_alienus(a)comcast.net> wrote: >> >>> >>>In his original experiment, Sagnac typically spun his apparatus >>>at 1- to 2+ times per second, recording displacements of several >>>hundredths of a fringe. >>>http://gallica.bnf.fr/ark:/12148/bpt6k31103.pleinepage.f1410 >> >> Is your "1- to 2+ times per second" a constant speed? >> >> Both you and inertial don't seem to understand yat the fringes only MOVE >> during >> a speed change. The displacement at any CONSTANT speed can only be >> determined >> by counting the 'number of fringe widths' a particular fringe moves >> sideways >> DURING a speed change. >> >>>This is a far cry from modern fibre optic gyros and ring gyros >>>used in inertial guidance systems, which are capable of detecting >>>rotational rates down to 0.00001 degree per hour. >> >> Please tell Andro why they use lots of turns. > >Bwahahaha! Jeery's been plonked, Wilson. You are the only troll > I feed because you've been domesticated, a kind of pet. You still >have these wild, feral urges to have your own crackpot theory, >though, and it amuses me to see you shouting. > > > >> Laser systems modulate the signal >> to get a more sensitive AC output. > >Bwahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha! > >Here, try this: http://www.sensodyne.co.uk/index.html > > > >>>Sagnac's original apparatus could not possibly have been used for >>>monitoring one's heading in an inertial guidance system. So yes, >>>it is not he, but YOU who is either being massively dishonest >>>in changing the premises of the discussion, or is simply confused. > >I go halfway with Jeery. You, Wilson, are simply confused; you are >too stupid or drunk to be massively dishonest. > > >> inertial made the statement that 'ring gyros never change rotation speed'. >> that was the stupidest thing she has uttered yet and proves she doesn't >> have a >> clue what she's talking about. > >Maybe she doesn't, I don't bother with feral trolls. <shrug> >Obviously no optical gyrocompass is going to mechanically >rotate indefinitely the way a mechanical one does or they'd have >no advantage. Geez you talk nonsense sometimes. Have you gone off the rails again? A ring gyro can be fastened to the frame of an aeroplane. It doesn't rotate indefinitely. It merely follows the plane's rotational movement. Use a trio at right angles and they can tell you very accurately where you are heading. Henry Wilson...www.users.bigpond.com/hewn/index.htm Einstein...World's greatest SciFi writer..
From: Henry Wilson, DSc on 17 Sep 2009 17:44 On Thu, 17 Sep 2009 20:52:15 +1000, "Inertial" <relatively(a)rest.com> wrote: >"Henry Wilson, DSc" <hw@..> wrote in message >news:ok04b5liqqdrpd77e8rjet48tmm9f2fkcl(a)4ax.com... >> On Thu, 17 Sep 2009 04:51:27 -0400, Jonah Thomas <jethomas5(a)gmail.com> >> wrote: >>>> >>> Ok, I have now worked out why there is confusion about this. >>>> >>> >>>> >>> The fact is, the phase shift already exists at the detector before >>>> >a>> particular photon leaves. >>>> >> >> You should have learnt by now that inertial is a hopeless case. She >> claimed >> that a sagnac interferometer never changes its rotational speed. > >Not for a given trial of the experiment, and not for the analysis of such a >trial where we work out the phase shift for A GIVEN FIXED ROTATIONAL SPEED. There is is no fringe movement at constant speed. How do you measure fringe displacement if you don't change speeds? >> hahahahhahhah....can you see the funny side... > >I see the pathetic side of your dishonesty. How can you live with yourself, >you lying deceiving little troll ? You are really clueless. Henry Wilson...www.users.bigpond.com/hewn/index.htm Einstein...World's greatest SciFi writer..
From: Henry Wilson, DSc on 17 Sep 2009 17:57 On Thu, 17 Sep 2009 07:04:42 -0400, Jonah Thomas <jethomas5(a)gmail.com> wrote: >hw@..(Henry Wilson, DSc) wrote: >> Jonah Thomas <jethomas5(a)gmail.com> wrote: >> >> Ok, I have now worked out why there is confusion about this. >> >> The fact is, the phase shift already exists at the detector before a >> particular photon leaves. The difference originated DURING previous >> CHANGES in rotation speed..... as did the different path lengths. So, >> at constant rotation speeds, we don't want any new light to change the >> status quo. We want the split photons to arrive IN PHASE so the >> existing beams remain as they were. >> >> I'll try to draw this in linear form. >> >> At constant speed let the broad beams of the two paths be represented >> like this(the beams supposedly use coherent light): >> >> S /\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\ D >> S /\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/v D >> >> They are in phase at the source but out of phase at the detector >> because of the different path lengths and the invariant wavelength of >> the light used. > >I drew pictures and found that the way I was thinking of it was wrong. > >The way you drew the picture was right. The alternative way that >Inertial and I were thinking went more like this: > >S /\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\ > D S/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\ > >Here the beginning is in phase, and the end is in phase, but the waves >are now out of phase at the point D where they both started -- which >does not matter. > >But the reality for our alternative is: > >S /\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\ > D S\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\ > >They would be in phase at the end and at the spot they started at (if >you extend the shorter wave back to that spot), but they are not in >phase at the source. > >Here are the pictures: > >http://i847.photobucket.com/albums/ab31/jehomas/speedwave4.gif >http://i847.photobucket.com/albums/ab31/jehomas/speedwave6.gif The waves must start out together. They also arrive at the detector together but one travels further than the other. >Once we assume constant wavelength, it is absurd to have the waves get >out of phase at the actual source. Wilson's alternative is the only one >that can make sense, unless we find a way to change hidden assumptions I >didn't notice I was making. > >If Wilson's approach doesn't work either then it will probably turn out >that it simply does not make sense to have waves with constant >wavelength in this circumstance. You are not considering what happens during a CHANGE in speed. That is when the path lengths change due to the changing magnitude of the arc length 'vt'. It is during a speed change that the fringes MOVE to a new displacement. They remain so displaced after the change. Henry Wilson...www.users.bigpond.com/hewn/index.htm Einstein...World's greatest SciFi writer..
From: Henry Wilson, DSc on 17 Sep 2009 18:04
On Wed, 16 Sep 2009 15:57:08 +0100, "Androcles" <Headmaster(a)Hogwarts.physics_o> wrote: > >"Henry Wilson, DSc" <hw@..> wrote in message >news:6uc1b594dhcam08qi5sibgjg8g9un6hl51(a)4ax.com... >> On Tue, 15 Sep 2009 21:40:26 -0400, Jonah Thomas <jethomas5(a)gmail.com> >> wrote: >> >>>hw@..(Henry Wilson, DSc) wrote: >>>> Jonah Thomas <jethomas5(a)gmail.com> wrote: >> >>>> >> >>>> >> This is now a pretty clear model. >>>> > >>>> >It isn't at all clear to me, but I'm working on it. >>> >>>OK, this might not apply to your model, but I have pictures that show >>>what the problem is if it does apply. >>> >>>http://yfrog.com/0xwavecg >>>http://yfrog.com/10wavedg >> >> I discussed those two possibilities with Paul several years ago....the >> 'frozen >> Norwegian snake' model or the 'warm wriggling Australian' one. >> >> I don't really think > >That says it all. > > http://yfrog.com/10wavedg leaves a history of an oscillation of a red dot. > http://img33.yfrog.com/i/wavec.gif/ has no cause. that's a water wave. Are you saying light needs a medium? Have you become an aetherist? >Real waves work the other way around: > http://www.androcles01.pwp.blueyonder.co.uk/Wave/ripple.gif What is that? >The boy has it back arsewards. >I agree, you don't really think. You don't really observe, either. > > > > Henry Wilson...www.users.bigpond.com/hewn/index.htm Einstein...World's greatest SciFi writer.. |