The Symmetric Twin Paradox
in [Relativity]
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From: Dono. on 16 Jun 2010 17:50 On Jun 15, 11:25 pm, colp <c...(a)solder.ath.cx> wrote: > The classic twin paradox is asymmetric in that one twin remains on we've been had, this is the false Australian idiot : http://ws.arin.net/whois/?queryinput=125.239.88.154
From: Androcles on 16 Jun 2010 17:53 "Peter K" <peter(a)parcelvej.dk> wrote in message news:4c194121$1(a)news.xnet.co.nz... | "colp" <colp(a)solder.ath.cx> wrote in message | news:267c724a-a11c-4cfe-ae6d-b5b9395cf382(a)a39g2000prb.googlegroups.com... | > The classic twin paradox is asymmetric in that one twin remains on | > Earth while the other leaves (i.e. only one of them accelerates and | > deaccelerates). In the symmetric twin paradox both twins leave Earth, | > setting out in opposite directions and returning to Earth at the same | > time. The conventional explanation for the classic twin paradox is | > since only one twin accelerates, the ages of the twins will be | > different. In the symmetric case this argument cannot be applied. | > | > The paradox of the symmetric twins is that according to special | > relativity (SR) each twin observes the other twin to age more slowly | > both on the outgoing leg | > and the return leg, so SR paradoxically predicts that each twin will | > be younger than | > the other when they return to Earth. | > | > The symmetric twin paradox is described more fully in the following | > paper: | > | > The Twin Paradox Revisited and Reformulated -- On the Possibility of | > Detecting Absolute Motion | > Authors: G. G. Nyambuya, M. D. Ngobeni | > | > http://adsabs.harvard.edu/abs/2008arXiv0804.2008N | > | > "We introduce a symmetric twin paradox whose solution can not be found | > within the currently accepted provinces of the STR if one adopts the | > currently accepted philosophy of the STR namely that it is impossible | > for an inertial observer to determine their state of motion." | | The only way to check this, is to send a couple of watches out on a | journey - say one to paris and back, and one to New York and back. Then when | they get back to NZ we can check the time on each of them! Sheesh, how hard | was that? Even easier, GPS satellites orbit the Earth in 12 hours. Ask any of them the time whenever you feel like it, they'll all visit NY and come back to NZ eventually, none ever show any time dilation and they've been travelling for years now. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Satellite_constellation
From: Peter K on 16 Jun 2010 18:03 "Androcles" <Headmaster(a)Hogwarts.physics_z> wrote in message news:jKbSn.51002$y%5.50212(a)hurricane... > > "Peter K" <peter(a)parcelvej.dk> wrote in message > news:4c194121$1(a)news.xnet.co.nz... > | "colp" <colp(a)solder.ath.cx> wrote in message > | > news:267c724a-a11c-4cfe-ae6d-b5b9395cf382(a)a39g2000prb.googlegroups.com... > | > The classic twin paradox is asymmetric in that one twin remains on > | > Earth while the other leaves (i.e. only one of them accelerates and > | > deaccelerates). In the symmetric twin paradox both twins leave Earth, > | > setting out in opposite directions and returning to Earth at the same > | > time. The conventional explanation for the classic twin paradox is > | > since only one twin accelerates, the ages of the twins will be > | > different. In the symmetric case this argument cannot be applied. > | > > | > The paradox of the symmetric twins is that according to special > | > relativity (SR) each twin observes the other twin to age more slowly > | > both on the outgoing leg > | > and the return leg, so SR paradoxically predicts that each twin will > | > be younger than > | > the other when they return to Earth. > | > > | > The symmetric twin paradox is described more fully in the following > | > paper: > | > > | > The Twin Paradox Revisited and Reformulated -- On the Possibility of > | > Detecting Absolute Motion > | > Authors: G. G. Nyambuya, M. D. Ngobeni > | > > | > http://adsabs.harvard.edu/abs/2008arXiv0804.2008N > | > > | > "We introduce a symmetric twin paradox whose solution can not be found > | > within the currently accepted provinces of the STR if one adopts the > | > currently accepted philosophy of the STR namely that it is impossible > | > for an inertial observer to determine their state of motion." > | > | The only way to check this, is to send a couple of watches out on a > | journey - say one to paris and back, and one to New York and back. Then > when > | they get back to NZ we can check the time on each of them! Sheesh, how > hard > | was that? > > Even easier, GPS satellites orbit the Earth in 12 hours. Ask any of them > the > time > whenever you feel like it, they'll all visit NY and come back to NZ > eventually, > none ever show any time dilation and they've been travelling for years > now. > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Satellite_constellation Hi - interesting comment. According to another wikipedia link, there ARE time dilation effects seen in GPS satellites, and other relativistic effects as well! Who to believe? See this for example, under the "Relativity" section: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/GPS
From: Mike_Fontenot on 16 Jun 2010 12:45 Here's another way to word it...maybe it'll be clearer to some readers. It helps, in distinguishing between the two twins, to identify twin A as a "he", and twin B as a "she": Twin A will conclude that twin B ages slowly on his (twin A's) outbound leg, then she ages quickly during his (twin A's) turnaround, and then she ages slowly on his (twin A's) inbound leg. When twin A adds up those THREE components of twin B's ageing, he (twin A) will get the same total ageing for twin B as his (twin A's) own total ageing. And twin B will conclude the same thing about twin A's THREE components of ageing. So they each will conclude (as they obviously must, because of the symmetry) that they are both the same age when they are reunited. Mike Fontenot
From: colp on 16 Jun 2010 19:28
On Jun 16, 8:05 pm, Enkidu <enkidu....(a)com.cliffp.com> wrote: > On 16/06/10 18:25, colp wrote: > >> The classic twin paradox is asymmetric in that one twin remains on > > Earth while the other leaves (i.e. only one of them accelerates and > > deaccelerates). In the symmetric twin paradox both twins leave Earth, > > Still peddling the same old garbage. col? Still unable to argue the point of contention rationally? |