There is no “pull” of gravity, only the PUSH of flowing ether!
in [Physics]
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From: NoEinstein on 20 Mar 2010 02:30 On Mar 19, 6:45 pm, PD <thedraperfam...(a)gmail.com> wrote: > Dear PD, the Parasite Dunce: All matter must interact with light, because matter doesn't exist which didn't at some point both give off and receive photon energy. Black holes are energy that is so concentrated that photons are unable to find a route out of the mix. Nor is there a way for flowing ether to find a way IN. That's why Black Holes have zero gravity! Nothing in means nothing out (for long)! NoEinstein > > On Mar 19, 5:04 pm, mpc755 <mpc...(a)gmail.com> wrote: > > > On Mar 19, 4:50 pm, PD <thedraperfam...(a)gmail.com> wrote: > > > > On Mar 18, 8:35 pm, mpc755 <mpc...(a)gmail.com> wrote: > > > > > On Mar 18, 8:10 pm, PD <thedraperfam...(a)gmail.com> wrote: > > > > > > On Mar 18, 3:00 pm, mpc755 <mpc...(a)gmail.com> wrote: > > > > > > > On Mar 18, 2:22 pm, PD <thedraperfam...(a)gmail.com> wrote: > > > > > > > > On Mar 18, 10:43 am, mpc755 <mpc...(a)gmail.com> wrote: > > > > > > > > > On Mar 18, 11:33 am, PD <thedraperfam...(a)gmail.com> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > On Mar 18, 10:23 am, mpc755 <mpc...(a)gmail.com> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > On Mar 18, 11:13 am, PD <thedraperfam...(a)gmail.com> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > On Mar 18, 9:36 am, mpc755 <mpc...(a)gmail.com> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > On Mar 18, 9:41 am, PD <thedraperfam...(a)gmail.com> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On Mar 17, 5:03 pm, mpc755 <mpc...(a)gmail.com> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Just the opposite is more correct. Instead of a boat let's use a > > > > > > > > > > > > > > submarine. Even if the submarine consists of millions of > > > > > > > > > > > > > > interconnected particles where the water is able to flow through the > > > > > > > > > > > > > > submarine the matter which is the submarine will still displace the > > > > > > > > > > > > > > water and the water will still apply pressure towards the matter which > > > > > > > > > > > > > > is the submarine. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > This is an interesting remark. Even though the water would flow right > > > > > > > > > > > > > through the submarine, the water would be displaced? What do you think > > > > > > > > > > > > > "displaced" means? > > > > > > > > > > > > > The water would not flow 'right' through the submarine. The more > > > > > > > > > > > > massive the submarine is the less the water flows through the > > > > > > > > > > > > submarine but if the submarine consists of millions of individual > > > > > > > > > > > > particles separated by a short distance it does not matter how massive > > > > > > > > > > > > the submarine is the water will exert a pressure on and throughout the > > > > > > > > > > > > millions if individual particles. > > > > > > > > > > > > > The matter which is the millions of individual particles still > > > > > > > > > > > > displaces the water which would otherwise exist where the millions of > > > > > > > > > > > > individual particles do. > > > > > > > > > > > > It's worth noting that in the case of two atoms that are close > > > > > > > > > > > together, the atoms are about a tenth of a nanometer across, and the > > > > > > > > > > > electrons in the atoms are a hundred million times smaller than than. > > > > > > > > > > > Thus electrons are in fact very small compared to the size of atoms, > > > > > > > > > > > and could in principle slip right through atoms, because atoms are > > > > > > > > > > > mostly empty space. > > > > > > > > > > > > And yet electrons in atoms in molecules don't do that, and there is a > > > > > > > > > > > specific interatomic spacing in a molecule. Since atoms are mostly > > > > > > > > > > > empty space, you'd think they'd be able to pass right through each > > > > > > > > > > > other like two sparse flocks of birds. But they don't.. Now you should > > > > > > > > > > > ask yourself why they do not, since there is obviously lots of empty > > > > > > > > > > > space available. It's obviously not just a matter of having lots of > > > > > > > > > > > room. So why do you think electrons don't penetrate other atoms really > > > > > > > > > > > easily? Hint: electrons in atoms *do* exert pressure on neighboring > > > > > > > > > > > atoms, and how it exerts this pressure is also pertinent to why they > > > > > > > > > > > do not penetrate. > > > > > > > > > > > > When you answer that question, then you'll be able to address how the > > > > > > > > > > > aether would have to work. Remember, it's not just having the room > > > > > > > > > > > available that matters. Keep in mind that you want your aether to also > > > > > > > > > > > exert pressure on the atoms of matter, so whatever it does that > > > > > > > > > > > enables that, electrons also do, and what electrons do prevents them > > > > > > > > > > > from penetrating neighboring atoms. > > > > > > > > > > > > Chew on that a while. > > > > > > > > > > > My guess is electrons are not particles but more like photons. > > > > > > > > > > What I told you about the size of electrons vs atoms is a *measured* > > > > > > > > > result. > > > > > > > > > Yes, when you measure the electron it collapses and is detected as a > > > > > > > > quantum of mather. > > > > > > > > Fascinating. And what do you think is involved in the measurement? And > > > > > > > how does the electron know whether it is interacting (for which it > > > > > > > needs to be big) or being measured (for which it needs to be small)? > > > > > > > And what physically happens when the electron collapses? > > > > > > > > Feel free to make stuff up. > > > > > > > > > > Let me also tell me that, despite your guess, why electrons don't > > > > > > > > > penetrate is in fact well understood. You just don't know yet what the > > > > > > > > > explanation is. (And so you try to invent something yourself.) Hint: > > > > > > > > > it has nothing to do with how much room there is. > > > > > > > > > I did not say it has anything to do with room. > > > > > > > > > > And whatever the electron is doing that prevents it from penetrating > > > > > > > > > atoms, will also have to be true for aether. > > > > > > > > > The nuclei is a self contained entity. It displaces the aether which > > > > > > > > the electron, which is likely a directed/pointed wave, exists in. > > > > > > > > Fascinating. And what in your mind are the differences between protons > > > > > > > and neutrons and electrons that they behave so differently? And how > > > > > > > would you test this hypothesis outside the atom to be sure it's right? > > > > > > > > Feel free to make stuff up. > > > > > > > How do you know a gravity quanta and a light quanta are not the same? > > > > > > Lots of reasons. > > > > > Fundamental strength of interaction is orders of magnitude different, > > > > > experimentally. > > > > This is very important. > > > > > > The two kinds of quanta interact with different classes of matter -- > > > > > Quanta, as gravity quanta, interacts with all matter. > > > > > > there is some matter that interacts via gravity quanta but not with > > > > > light quanta, for example, and this is experimentally confirmed. > > > > > Quanta, as light quanta interacts with all matter. It is a matter of > > > > detection of the light quanta. > > > > That is counter to experiment. Light does not interact with all > > > matter, observationally. > > > And what do you mean by it does not interact with? That it is not > > detected? > > No, I do not mean that. I mean that an interaction changes the state > of the matter, by imparting for example momentum or kinetic energy or > charge or changing its temperature or entropy. > > We know that there is matter that light does not interact with. > > > > > > > > > > You can claim all you want that things happen that are inconsistent > > > with observation, and claim that the observation is wrong, but then > > > you are being religious, not scientific. > > > > > > The angular momentum of light quanta is 1xPlanck's constant, and that > > > > > of the gravitational quanta is 2xPlanck's constant. > > > > This is also important. > > > > > > The detection methodology for light quanta and gravitational quanta is > > > > > fundamentally different, observationally. > > > > > Obviously. > > > > And this marks a significant difference between light quanta and > > > gravitational quanta. Thank you. > > > Yes, because light quanta propagates at 'c'. > > No, the detection scheme doesn't care what speed it propagates at. > > > > > > > > > We are discussing light and gravity. That doesn't mean the > > > > quanta are different. For example, light quanta propagates at 'c' > > > > while gravity quanta state is determined by its connections with the > > > > matter and the state of the neighboring quanta. > > > > > Quanta state as determined by its connections with the matter is its > > > > state of displacement. The pressure associated with the quanta > > > > displaced by a massive object is gravity.- Hide quoted text - > > - Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text - > > - Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text - > > - Show quoted text -
From: NoEinstein on 20 Mar 2010 02:38 On Mar 19, 9:56 pm, john <vega...(a)accesscomm.ca> wrote: > On Mar 19, 4:45 pm, PD <thedraperfam...(a)gmail.com> wrote: > > > > > > > On Mar 19, 5:04 pm, mpc755 <mpc...(a)gmail.com> wrote: > > > > On Mar 19, 4:50 pm, PD <thedraperfam...(a)gmail.com> wrote: > > > > > On Mar 18, 8:35 pm, mpc755 <mpc...(a)gmail.com> wrote: > > > > > > On Mar 18, 8:10 pm, PD <thedraperfam...(a)gmail.com> wrote: > > > > > > > On Mar 18, 3:00 pm, mpc755 <mpc...(a)gmail.com> wrote: > > > > > > > > On Mar 18, 2:22 pm, PD <thedraperfam...(a)gmail.com> wrote: > > > > > > > > > On Mar 18, 10:43 am, mpc755 <mpc...(a)gmail.com> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > On Mar 18, 11:33 am, PD <thedraperfam...(a)gmail.com> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > On Mar 18, 10:23 am, mpc755 <mpc...(a)gmail.com> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > On Mar 18, 11:13 am, PD <thedraperfam...(a)gmail.com> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > On Mar 18, 9:36 am, mpc755 <mpc...(a)gmail.com> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On Mar 18, 9:41 am, PD <thedraperfam...(a)gmail.com> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On Mar 17, 5:03 pm, mpc755 <mpc...(a)gmail.com> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Just the opposite is more correct. Instead of a boat let's use a > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > submarine. Even if the submarine consists of millions of > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > interconnected particles where the water is able to flow through the > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > submarine the matter which is the submarine will still displace the > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > water and the water will still apply pressure towards the matter which > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > is the submarine. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > This is an interesting remark. Even though the water would flow right > > > > > > > > > > > > > > through the submarine, the water would be displaced? What do you think > > > > > > > > > > > > > > "displaced" means? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The water would not flow 'right' through the submarine. The more > > > > > > > > > > > > > massive the submarine is the less the water flows through the > > > > > > > > > > > > > submarine but if the submarine consists of millions of individual > > > > > > > > > > > > > particles separated by a short distance it does not matter how massive > > > > > > > > > > > > > the submarine is the water will exert a pressure on and throughout the > > > > > > > > > > > > > millions if individual particles. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The matter which is the millions of individual particles still > > > > > > > > > > > > > displaces the water which would otherwise exist where the millions of > > > > > > > > > > > > > individual particles do. > > > > > > > > > > > > > It's worth noting that in the case of two atoms that are close > > > > > > > > > > > > together, the atoms are about a tenth of a nanometer across, and the > > > > > > > > > > > > electrons in the atoms are a hundred million times smaller than than. > > > > > > > > > > > > Thus electrons are in fact very small compared to the size of atoms, > > > > > > > > > > > > and could in principle slip right through atoms, because atoms are > > > > > > > > > > > > mostly empty space. > > > > > > > > > > > > > And yet electrons in atoms in molecules don't do that, and there is a > > > > > > > > > > > > specific interatomic spacing in a molecule. Since atoms are mostly > > > > > > > > > > > > empty space, you'd think they'd be able to pass right through each > > > > > > > > > > > > other like two sparse flocks of birds. But they don't. Now you should > > > > > > > > > > > > ask yourself why they do not, since there is obviously lots of empty > > > > > > > > > > > > space available. It's obviously not just a matter of having lots of > > > > > > > > > > > > room. So why do you think electrons don't penetrate other atoms really > > > > > > > > > > > > easily? Hint: electrons in atoms *do* exert pressure on neighboring > > > > > > > > > > > > atoms, and how it exerts this pressure is also pertinent to why they > > > > > > > > > > > > do not penetrate. > > > > > > > > > > > > > When you answer that question, then you'll be able to address how the > > > > > > > > > > > > aether would have to work. Remember, it's not just having the room > > > > > > > > > > > > available that matters. Keep in mind that you want your aether to also > > > > > > > > > > > > exert pressure on the atoms of matter, so whatever it does that > > > > > > > > > > > > enables that, electrons also do, and what electrons do prevents them > > > > > > > > > > > > from penetrating neighboring atoms. > > > > > > > > > > > > > Chew on that a while. > > > > > > > > > > > > My guess is electrons are not particles but more like photons. > > > > > > > > > > > What I told you about the size of electrons vs atoms is a *measured* > > > > > > > > > > result. > > > > > > > > > > Yes, when you measure the electron it collapses and is detected as a > > > > > > > > > quantum of mather. > > > > > > > > > Fascinating. And what do you think is involved in the measurement? And > > > > > > > > how does the electron know whether it is interacting (for which it > > > > > > > > needs to be big) or being measured (for which it needs to be small)? > > > > > > > > And what physically happens when the electron collapses? > > > > > > > > > Feel free to make stuff up. > > > > > > > > > > > Let me also tell me that, despite your guess, why electrons don't > > > > > > > > > > penetrate is in fact well understood. You just don't know yet what the > > > > > > > > > > explanation is. (And so you try to invent something yourself.) Hint: > > > > > > > > > > it has nothing to do with how much room there is. > > > > > > > > > > I did not say it has anything to do with room. > > > > > > > > > > > And whatever the electron is doing that prevents it from penetrating > > > > > > > > > > atoms, will also have to be true for aether. > > > > > > > > > > The nuclei is a self contained entity. It displaces the aether which > > > > > > > > > the electron, which is likely a directed/pointed wave, exists in. > > > > > > > > > Fascinating. And what in your mind are the differences between protons > > > > > > > > and neutrons and electrons that they behave so differently? And how > > > > > > > > would you test this hypothesis outside the atom to be sure it's right? > > > > > > > > > Feel free to make stuff up. > > > > > > > > How do you know a gravity quanta and a light quanta are not the same? > > > > > > > Lots of reasons. > > > > > > Fundamental strength of interaction is orders of magnitude different, > > > > > > experimentally. > > > > > This is very important. > > > > > > > The two kinds of quanta interact with different classes of matter -- > > > > > > Quanta, as gravity quanta, interacts with all matter. > > > > > > > there is some matter that interacts via gravity quanta but not with > > > > > > light quanta, for example, and this is experimentally confirmed.. > > > > > > Quanta, as light quanta interacts with all matter. It is a matter of > > > > > detection of the light quanta. > > > > > That is counter to experiment. Light does not interact with all > > > > matter, observationally. > > > > And what do you mean by it does not interact with? That it is not > > > detected? > > > No, I do not mean that. I mean that an interaction changes the state > > of the matter, by imparting for example momentum or kinetic energy or > > charge or changing its temperature or entropy. > > > We know that there is matter that light does not interact with. > > And that is? > > > > > > > > > You can claim all you want that things happen that are inconsistent > > > > with observation, and claim that the observation is wrong, but then > > > > you are being religious, not scientific. > > > > > > > The angular momentum of light quanta is 1xPlanck's constant, and that > > > > > > of the gravitational quanta is 2xPlanck's constant. > > > > > This is also important. > > > > > > > The detection methodology for light quanta and gravitational quanta is > > > > > > fundamentally different, observationally. > > > > > > Obviously. > > > > > And this marks a significant difference between light quanta and > > > > gravitational quanta. Thank you. > > > > Yes, because light quanta propagates at 'c'. > > > No, the detection scheme doesn't care what speed it propagates at. > > > > > > We are discussing light and gravity. That doesn't mean the > > > > > quanta are different. For example, light quanta propagates at 'c' > > > > > while gravity quanta state is determined by its connections with the > > > > > matter and the state of the neighboring quanta. > > > > > > Quanta state as determined by its connections with the matter is its > > > > > state of displacement. The pressure associated with the quanta > > > > > displaced by a massive object is gravity.- Hide quoted text - > > > - Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text - > > > - Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text - > > > - Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text - > > - Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text - > > - Show quoted text - Dear John: PD, who is hooked on the status quo in physics, probably is referring to the supposed 'dark matter' not yet foundand wrongly assumed to be super-massive Black Holes (sic!!!). Because Newton never realized that very hot bodies have more gravity per unit of mass than colder bodies, the estimated mass of a typical galaxy has been over-estimated by about a factor of ten. And the force of gravity holding galazies together has been underestimated by about a factor of ten. Make the corrections for those two mistakes and one will find that there is no... missing mass in the Universe whatsoever! NoEinstein
From: NoEinstein on 20 Mar 2010 02:52 On Mar 19, 10:21 pm, mpc755 <mpc...(a)gmail.com> wrote: > Dear mpc755: Light 'quanta' (photons) definitely interact with matter! Even though those quanta are tangles of IOTAs (the stuff of the ether), the light interacts, primarily, with the surface of the matter hit. Even so, there is always an associated elevation of the objects' temperatures. 1/2 a phase after being hit by a photon, a photon from the object will be emitted at very close to the same time interval (but slightly redder due to the Friction of Reflectionmy own term, explained in a technical article. Gravity 'quanta' is simply flowing ether. Because that type ether isn't clumped to bigger sizes, it will flow through matter and interact with every obstruction (atomic nuclei), much like a metal pin ball striking a pin, then bouncing down to strike another pin. The total FORCE imparted by those many strikes is what gives an object a fixed mass, on or near the Earth. NoEinstein > > On Mar 19, 6:45 pm, PD <thedraperfam...(a)gmail.com> wrote: > > > > > > > On Mar 19, 5:04 pm, mpc755 <mpc...(a)gmail.com> wrote: > > > > On Mar 19, 4:50 pm, PD <thedraperfam...(a)gmail.com> wrote: > > > > > On Mar 18, 8:35 pm, mpc755 <mpc...(a)gmail.com> wrote: > > > > > > On Mar 18, 8:10 pm, PD <thedraperfam...(a)gmail.com> wrote: > > > > > > > On Mar 18, 3:00 pm, mpc755 <mpc...(a)gmail.com> wrote: > > > > > > > > On Mar 18, 2:22 pm, PD <thedraperfam...(a)gmail.com> wrote: > > > > > > > > > On Mar 18, 10:43 am, mpc755 <mpc...(a)gmail.com> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > On Mar 18, 11:33 am, PD <thedraperfam...(a)gmail.com> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > On Mar 18, 10:23 am, mpc755 <mpc...(a)gmail.com> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > On Mar 18, 11:13 am, PD <thedraperfam...(a)gmail.com> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > On Mar 18, 9:36 am, mpc755 <mpc...(a)gmail.com> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On Mar 18, 9:41 am, PD <thedraperfam...(a)gmail.com> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On Mar 17, 5:03 pm, mpc755 <mpc...(a)gmail.com> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Just the opposite is more correct. Instead of a boat let's use a > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > submarine. Even if the submarine consists of millions of > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > interconnected particles where the water is able to flow through the > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > submarine the matter which is the submarine will still displace the > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > water and the water will still apply pressure towards the matter which > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > is the submarine. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > This is an interesting remark. Even though the water would flow right > > > > > > > > > > > > > > through the submarine, the water would be displaced? What do you think > > > > > > > > > > > > > > "displaced" means? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The water would not flow 'right' through the submarine. The more > > > > > > > > > > > > > massive the submarine is the less the water flows through the > > > > > > > > > > > > > submarine but if the submarine consists of millions of individual > > > > > > > > > > > > > particles separated by a short distance it does not matter how massive > > > > > > > > > > > > > the submarine is the water will exert a pressure on and throughout the > > > > > > > > > > > > > millions if individual particles. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The matter which is the millions of individual particles still > > > > > > > > > > > > > displaces the water which would otherwise exist where the millions of > > > > > > > > > > > > > individual particles do. > > > > > > > > > > > > > It's worth noting that in the case of two atoms that are close > > > > > > > > > > > > together, the atoms are about a tenth of a nanometer across, and the > > > > > > > > > > > > electrons in the atoms are a hundred million times smaller than than. > > > > > > > > > > > > Thus electrons are in fact very small compared to the size of atoms, > > > > > > > > > > > > and could in principle slip right through atoms, because atoms are > > > > > > > > > > > > mostly empty space. > > > > > > > > > > > > > And yet electrons in atoms in molecules don't do that, and there is a > > > > > > > > > > > > specific interatomic spacing in a molecule. Since atoms are mostly > > > > > > > > > > > > empty space, you'd think they'd be able to pass right through each > > > > > > > > > > > > other like two sparse flocks of birds. But they don't. Now you should > > > > > > > > > > > > ask yourself why they do not, since there is obviously lots of empty > > > > > > > > > > > > space available. It's obviously not just a matter of having lots of > > > > > > > > > > > > room. So why do you think electrons don't penetrate other atoms really > > > > > > > > > > > > easily? Hint: electrons in atoms *do* exert pressure on neighboring > > > > > > > > > > > > atoms, and how it exerts this pressure is also pertinent to why they > > > > > > > > > > > > do not penetrate. > > > > > > > > > > > > > When you answer that question, then you'll be able to address how the > > > > > > > > > > > > aether would have to work. Remember, it's not just having the room > > > > > > > > > > > > available that matters. Keep in mind that you want your aether to also > > > > > > > > > > > > exert pressure on the atoms of matter, so whatever it does that > > > > > > > > > > > > enables that, electrons also do, and what electrons do prevents them > > > > > > > > > > > > from penetrating neighboring atoms. > > > > > > > > > > > > > Chew on that a while. > > > > > > > > > > > > My guess is electrons are not particles but more like photons. > > > > > > > > > > > What I told you about the size of electrons vs atoms is a *measured* > > > > > > > > > > result. > > > > > > > > > > Yes, when you measure the electron it collapses and is detected as a > > > > > > > > > quantum of mather. > > > > > > > > > Fascinating. And what do you think is involved in the measurement? And > > > > > > > > how does the electron know whether it is interacting (for which it > > > > > > > > needs to be big) or being measured (for which it needs to be small)? > > > > > > > > And what physically happens when the electron collapses? > > > > > > > > > Feel free to make stuff up. > > > > > > > > > > > Let me also tell me that, despite your guess, why electrons don't > > > > > > > > > > penetrate is in fact well understood. You just don't know yet what the > > > > > > > > > > explanation is. (And so you try to invent something yourself.) Hint: > > > > > > > > > > it has nothing to do with how much room there is. > > > > > > > > > > I did not say it has anything to do with room. > > > > > > > > > > > And whatever the electron is doing that prevents it from penetrating > > > > > > > > > > atoms, will also have to be true for aether. > > > > > > > > > > The nuclei is a self contained entity. It displaces the aether which > > > > > > > > > the electron, which is likely a directed/pointed wave, exists in. > > > > > > > > > Fascinating. And what in your mind are the differences between protons > > > > > > > > and neutrons and electrons that they behave so differently? And how > > > > > > > > would you test this hypothesis outside the atom to be sure it's right? > > > > > > > > > Feel free to make stuff up. > > > > > > > > How do you know a gravity quanta and a light quanta are not the same? > > > > > > > Lots of reasons. > > > > > > Fundamental strength of interaction is orders of magnitude different, > > > > > > experimentally. > > > > > This is very important. > > > > > > > The two kinds of quanta interact with different classes of matter -- > > > > > > Quanta, as gravity quanta, interacts with all matter. > > > > > > > there is some matter that interacts via gravity quanta but not with > > > > > > light quanta, for example, and this is experimentally confirmed.. > > > > > > Quanta, as light quanta interacts with all matter. It is a matter of > > > > > detection of the light quanta. > > > > > That is counter to experiment. Light does not interact with all > > > > matter, observationally. > > > > And what do you mean by it does not interact with? That it is not > > > detected? > > > No, I do not mean that. I mean that an interaction changes the state > > of the matter, by imparting for example momentum or kinetic energy or > > charge or changing its temperature or entropy. > > > We know that there is matter that light does not interact with. > > You do not know that the light does not interact with the matter. What > you do know is there is no change in the light quanta. > > This does not mean gravity quanta is different then light quanta. Just > that the state of the quanta interacts with matter differently.- Hide quoted text - > > - Show quoted text -
From: NoEinstein on 20 Mar 2010 03:05 On Mar 19, 10:43 pm, BURT <macromi...(a)yahoo.com> wrote: > On Mar 19, 7:21 pm, mpc755 <mpc...(a)gmail.com> wrote: > > > > > > > On Mar 19, 6:45 pm, PD <thedraperfam...(a)gmail.com> wrote: > > > > On Mar 19, 5:04 pm, mpc755 <mpc...(a)gmail.com> wrote: > > > > > On Mar 19, 4:50 pm, PD <thedraperfam...(a)gmail.com> wrote: > > > > > > On Mar 18, 8:35 pm, mpc755 <mpc...(a)gmail.com> wrote: > > > > > > > On Mar 18, 8:10 pm, PD <thedraperfam...(a)gmail.com> wrote: > > > > > > > > On Mar 18, 3:00 pm, mpc755 <mpc...(a)gmail.com> wrote: > > > > > > > > > On Mar 18, 2:22 pm, PD <thedraperfam...(a)gmail.com> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > On Mar 18, 10:43 am, mpc755 <mpc...(a)gmail.com> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > On Mar 18, 11:33 am, PD <thedraperfam...(a)gmail.com> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > On Mar 18, 10:23 am, mpc755 <mpc...(a)gmail.com> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > On Mar 18, 11:13 am, PD <thedraperfam...(a)gmail.com> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On Mar 18, 9:36 am, mpc755 <mpc...(a)gmail.com> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On Mar 18, 9:41 am, PD <thedraperfam...(a)gmail..com> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On Mar 17, 5:03 pm, mpc755 <mpc...(a)gmail.com> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Just the opposite is more correct. Instead of a boat let's use a > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > submarine. Even if the submarine consists of millions of > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > interconnected particles where the water is able to flow through the > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > submarine the matter which is the submarine will still displace the > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > water and the water will still apply pressure towards the matter which > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > is the submarine. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > This is an interesting remark. Even though the water would flow right > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > through the submarine, the water would be displaced? What do you think > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > "displaced" means? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The water would not flow 'right' through the submarine. The more > > > > > > > > > > > > > > massive the submarine is the less the water flows through the > > > > > > > > > > > > > > submarine but if the submarine consists of millions of individual > > > > > > > > > > > > > > particles separated by a short distance it does not matter how massive > > > > > > > > > > > > > > the submarine is the water will exert a pressure on and throughout the > > > > > > > > > > > > > > millions if individual particles. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The matter which is the millions of individual particles still > > > > > > > > > > > > > > displaces the water which would otherwise exist where the millions of > > > > > > > > > > > > > > individual particles do. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > It's worth noting that in the case of two atoms that are close > > > > > > > > > > > > > together, the atoms are about a tenth of a nanometer across, and the > > > > > > > > > > > > > electrons in the atoms are a hundred million times smaller than than. > > > > > > > > > > > > > Thus electrons are in fact very small compared to the size of atoms, > > > > > > > > > > > > > and could in principle slip right through atoms, because atoms are > > > > > > > > > > > > > mostly empty space. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > And yet electrons in atoms in molecules don't do that, and there is a > > > > > > > > > > > > > specific interatomic spacing in a molecule. Since atoms are mostly > > > > > > > > > > > > > empty space, you'd think they'd be able to pass right through each > > > > > > > > > > > > > other like two sparse flocks of birds. But they don't. Now you should > > > > > > > > > > > > > ask yourself why they do not, since there is obviously lots of empty > > > > > > > > > > > > > space available. It's obviously not just a matter of having lots of > > > > > > > > > > > > > room. So why do you think electrons don't penetrate other atoms really > > > > > > > > > > > > > easily? Hint: electrons in atoms *do* exert pressure on neighboring > > > > > > > > > > > > > atoms, and how it exerts this pressure is also pertinent to why they > > > > > > > > > > > > > do not penetrate. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > When you answer that question, then you'll be able to address how the > > > > > > > > > > > > > aether would have to work. Remember, it's not just having the room > > > > > > > > > > > > > available that matters. Keep in mind that you want your aether to also > > > > > > > > > > > > > exert pressure on the atoms of matter, so whatever it does that > > > > > > > > > > > > > enables that, electrons also do, and what electrons do prevents them > > > > > > > > > > > > > from penetrating neighboring atoms. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Chew on that a while. > > > > > > > > > > > > > My guess is electrons are not particles but more like photons. > > > > > > > > > > > > What I told you about the size of electrons vs atoms is a *measured* > > > > > > > > > > > result. > > > > > > > > > > > Yes, when you measure the electron it collapses and is detected as a > > > > > > > > > > quantum of mather. > > > > > > > > > > Fascinating. And what do you think is involved in the measurement? And > > > > > > > > > how does the electron know whether it is interacting (for which it > > > > > > > > > needs to be big) or being measured (for which it needs to be small)? > > > > > > > > > And what physically happens when the electron collapses? > > > > > > > > > > Feel free to make stuff up. > > > > > > > > > > > > Let me also tell me that, despite your guess, why electrons don't > > > > > > > > > > > penetrate is in fact well understood. You just don't know yet what the > > > > > > > > > > > explanation is. (And so you try to invent something yourself.) Hint: > > > > > > > > > > > it has nothing to do with how much room there is. > > > > > > > > > > > I did not say it has anything to do with room. > > > > > > > > > > > > And whatever the electron is doing that prevents it from penetrating > > > > > > > > > > > atoms, will also have to be true for aether. > > > > > > > > > > > The nuclei is a self contained entity. It displaces the aether which > > > > > > > > > > the electron, which is likely a directed/pointed wave, exists in. > > > > > > > > > > Fascinating. And what in your mind are the differences between protons > > > > > > > > > and neutrons and electrons that they behave so differently? And how > > > > > > > > > would you test this hypothesis outside the atom to be sure it's right? > > > > > > > > > > Feel free to make stuff up. > > > > > > > > > How do you know a gravity quanta and a light quanta are not the same? > > > > > > > > Lots of reasons. > > > > > > > Fundamental strength of interaction is orders of magnitude different, > > > > > > > experimentally. > > > > > > This is very important. > > > > > > > > The two kinds of quanta interact with different classes of matter -- > > > > > > > Quanta, as gravity quanta, interacts with all matter. > > > > > > > > there is some matter that interacts via gravity quanta but not with > > > > > > > light quanta, for example, and this is experimentally confirmed. > > > > > > > Quanta, as light quanta interacts with all matter. It is a matter of > > > > > > detection of the light quanta. > > > > > > That is counter to experiment. Light does not interact with all > > > > > matter, observationally. > > > > > And what do you mean by it does not interact with? That it is not > > > > detected? > > > > No, I do not mean that. I mean that an interaction changes the state > > > of the matter, by imparting for example momentum or kinetic energy or > > > charge or changing its temperature or entropy. > > > > We know that there is matter that light does not interact with. > > > You do not know that the light does not interact with the matter. What > > you do know is there is no change in the light quanta. > > > This does not mean gravity quanta is different then light quanta. Just > > that the state of the quanta interacts with matter differently.- Hide quoted text - > > > - Show quoted text - > > Gravity waves cannot be absorbed. Light energy can go in and out of > mass. > > Mitch Raemsch- Hide quoted text - > > - Show quoted text - Dear Mitch: There is no such thing as gravity waves! The reason? Gravity over distances greater than a typical galactic interval gets blocked because the ether density goes to zero. A galaxy will scavenge the energy for making the stars from the ether just outside the zone of the galaxy. That said, ether pressure can be increased due to, say, a super nova. But such would have to be within the Milky Way to be experienced. Because the ether is so compressible, any "wave" would be like jumping up and down on one of those low density foam mattresses. The wine glass won't get knocked over. So the effects of gravity waves is moot, indeed. NoEinstein
From: Bill Hobba on 20 Mar 2010 03:39
On 20/03/2010 4:23 PM, NoEinstein wrote: > On Mar 19, 6:43 pm, PD<thedraperfam...(a)gmail.com> wrote: >> On Mar 19, 5:01 pm, NoEinstein<noeinst...(a)bellsouth.net> wrote: >> >> >> >> >> >>> On Mar 18, 2:22 pm, PD<thedraperfam...(a)gmail.com> wrote: >> >>>> On Mar 18, 10:43 am, mpc755<mpc...(a)gmail.com> wrote: >> >>>>> On Mar 18, 11:33 am, PD<thedraperfam...(a)gmail.com> wrote: >> >>>>>> On Mar 18, 10:23 am, mpc755<mpc...(a)gmail.com> wrote: >> >>>>>>> On Mar 18, 11:13 am, PD<thedraperfam...(a)gmail.com> wrote: >> >>>>>>>> On Mar 18, 9:36 am, mpc755<mpc...(a)gmail.com> wrote: >> >>>>>>>>> On Mar 18, 9:41 am, PD<thedraperfam...(a)gmail.com> wrote: >> >>>>>>>>>> On Mar 17, 5:03 pm, mpc755<mpc...(a)gmail.com> wrote: >> >>>>>>>>>>> Just the opposite is more correct. Instead of a boat let's use a >>>>>>>>>>> submarine. Even if the submarine consists of millions of >>>>>>>>>>> interconnected particles where the water is able to flow through the >>>>>>>>>>> submarine the matter which is the submarine will still displace the >>>>>>>>>>> water and the water will still apply pressure towards the matter which >>>>>>>>>>> is the submarine. >> >>>>>>>>>> This is an interesting remark. Even though the water would flow right >>>>>>>>>> through the submarine, the water would be displaced? What do you think >>>>>>>>>> "displaced" means? >> >>>>>>>>> The water would not flow 'right' through the submarine. The more >>>>>>>>> massive the submarine is the less the water flows through the >>>>>>>>> submarine but if the submarine consists of millions of individual >>>>>>>>> particles separated by a short distance it does not matter how massive >>>>>>>>> the submarine is the water will exert a pressure on and throughout the >>>>>>>>> millions if individual particles. >> >>>>>>>>> The matter which is the millions of individual particles still >>>>>>>>> displaces the water which would otherwise exist where the millions of >>>>>>>>> individual particles do. >> >>>>>>>> It's worth noting that in the case of two atoms that are close >>>>>>>> together, the atoms are about a tenth of a nanometer across, and the >>>>>>>> electrons in the atoms are a hundred million times smaller than than. >>>>>>>> Thus electrons are in fact very small compared to the size of atoms, >>>>>>>> and could in principle slip right through atoms, because atoms are >>>>>>>> mostly empty space. >> >>>>>>>> And yet electrons in atoms in molecules don't do that, and there is a >>>>>>>> specific interatomic spacing in a molecule. Since atoms are mostly >>>>>>>> empty space, you'd think they'd be able to pass right through each >>>>>>>> other like two sparse flocks of birds. But they don't. Now you should >>>>>>>> ask yourself why they do not, since there is obviously lots of empty >>>>>>>> space available. It's obviously not just a matter of having lots of >>>>>>>> room. So why do you think electrons don't penetrate other atoms really >>>>>>>> easily? Hint: electrons in atoms *do* exert pressure on neighboring >>>>>>>> atoms, and how it exerts this pressure is also pertinent to why they >>>>>>>> do not penetrate. >> >>>>>>>> When you answer that question, then you'll be able to address how the >>>>>>>> aether would have to work. Remember, it's not just having the room >>>>>>>> available that matters. Keep in mind that you want your aether to also >>>>>>>> exert pressure on the atoms of matter, so whatever it does that >>>>>>>> enables that, electrons also do, and what electrons do prevents them >>>>>>>> from penetrating neighboring atoms. >> >>>>>>>> Chew on that a while. >> >>>>>>> My guess is electrons are not particles but more like photons. >> >>>>>> What I told you about the size of electrons vs atoms is a *measured* >>>>>> result. >> >>>>> Yes, when you measure the electron it collapses and is detected as a >>>>> quantum of mather. >> >>>> Fascinating. And what do you think is involved in the measurement? And >>>> how does the electron know whether it is interacting (for which it >>>> needs to be big) or being measured (for which it needs to be small)? >>>> And what physically happens when the electron collapses? >> >>>> Feel free to make stuff up. >> >>>>>> Let me also tell me that, despite your guess, why electrons don't >>>>>> penetrate is in fact well understood. You just don't know yet what the >>>>>> explanation is. (And so you try to invent something yourself.) Hint: >>>>>> it has nothing to do with how much room there is. >> >>>>> I did not say it has anything to do with room. >> >>>>>> And whatever the electron is doing that prevents it from penetrating >>>>>> atoms, will also have to be true for aether. >> >>>>> The nuclei is a self contained entity. It displaces the aether which >>>>> the electron, which is likely a directed/pointed wave, exists in. >> >>>> Fascinating. And what in your mind are the differences between protons >>>> and neutrons and electrons that they behave so differently? And how >>>> would you test this hypothesis outside the atom to be sure it's right? >> >>>> Feel free to make stuff up. >> >>>>>>> Electrons are directed/pointed waves which collapse when detected as a >>>>>>> quantum of mather. >> >>>>>>> So, an electron is actually a disturbance which surrounds the nuclei. >>>>>>> The pressure associated with a nuclei is due to the aether displaced >>>>>>> by the nuclei and the aether displaced by the neighboring nuclei, not >>>>>>> the electron. >> >>>>>>>>> displace: >>>>>>>>> 1 a : to remove from the usual or proper place >>>>>>>>> 2 a : to move physically out of position<a floating object displaces >>>>>>>>> water> >>>>>>>>> (m-w.com)- Hide quoted text - >> >>>> - Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text - >> >>>> - Show quoted text - >> >>> True scientists can make statements, not just... ask questions. � NE � >> >> I do that too. But true scientists also ask questions, not just ... >> make stuff up.- Hide quoted text - >> >> - Show quoted text - > > Dear PD, the Parasite Dunce: Einstein made up 'space-time' and the > cosmological constant. Where did you get that from? As a matter of fact Einsteins teacher Minkowski discovered space-time - not Einstein. Note - discovered - not made up. This is a discovery because he was the first to realize it could be modeled geometrically. Einstein postulated the cosmological constant - not made it up - there is a difference. > I have correctly determined, via clear > reasoning alone, that the mechanism of gravity is photon exchange that > results in ether flow. No you haven't. The fact you think so however is quite telling of your muddled thinking. > I have also reasoned that there was no Big > Bang. So, there is no need for a cosmological constant to explain > anything. The reason the universe 'seems' to be expanding is because > trains of photons (light rays) get wedged apart by other passing light > waves, so, over a very long time, the wave length (a misnomer... that > word 'wave') gets longer and the light gets redder. I determined > these things by clear thinking and deductive reasoning. �Making up� > stuff involves neither of those two. � NE � As I said - muddled thinking. Thanks Bill |