Time Machine: Spit!!!
in [UK Mac]
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From: T i m on 24 Nov 2009 11:23 On Tue, 24 Nov 2009 15:40:19 +0000, thewildrover(a)me.com (Andy Hewitt) wrote: >> Indeed, but if the point of TM (specifically over this dongle or the >> drive) is that it can take regular / historic type backups so the >> tendency would be to leave it on wouldn't it? > >Indeed, that is the whole idea. Nothing stopping you plugging in as you >come into work and disconnecting it and taking it home at the end of >day. OK, but would that be it's typical usage pattern? How can I put this ... Ok, I fancy a Chinese meal so I go to Chinese restaurant. If I want a curry I go an Indian restaurant. Now, I understand the Chinese restaurant also do their own curry but that isn't where *I* (or I suspect 'most people) would go for one. Not that I wouldn't go there for one ever, but I wouldn't go there typically. My understanding of TM is that it *typically* would be a resident system, left on, plugged in and running doing regular snapshots of the changing data files. That's not how I would perceive the use of the ClickFree product. Not that hey couldn't overlap of course, but they have distinctly different usage norms? > >Homers have a different problem of course, and probably don't have two >locations they could easily, and regularly, take the drive unit to, so >will end up staying put. Mine does, although it is in a steel cased PC >tower. Understood. And indoors would be fine as long as it wasn't connected and it existed in the first place. ;-) > >> You did because you could. They wouldn't know where to start >> (generically). > >Yes, and I've been able to do it for family too. Leaving them with Super >Duper running, I have been able to restore them to a reasonable point >quite easily. Yes (and we are running wide here). Of course ... *you* have ... ? How far would they have got completely on their own (and I don't mean your family specifically). > > >Indeed (analogy not needed), Aww ;-( > it does show that whatever backup system >you choose, no one of them is ideal - you need to consider running at >elast two different types of backup. Or RUN ONE AT LEAST (ooops, sorry). ;-) > > >Righto, have now. It's not too dissimilar to mine actually. Cripes. > I don't use >sparsebundles, but have a mix of data on different drives, I backup the >most important data into Time Machine, clone my internal hard drive to >an external partition, my Aperture Library is on an external drive, with >the Vault on another. Along with another store of my photos in Finder, I >have three copies of all my photos (which I'd be most miffed about >losing). And <jokingly> all this backup stuff is on your superior hardware and superior and virus resistant OS? Ah, it's a displacement activity because you aren't chasing viruses or running defrag eh! ;-) > >> >OK, I really don't see the difference here, other than perhaps a >> >pen-drive might be considered more volatile as a backup media. >> >> Because my batch file *just* copies a few fairly specific files from >> one directory (well, it uses a bit of a wildcard but only for the file >> names), not scans the entire machine for over '400 file types'. > >Yeah, that's fair enough, but my point was the volatility of the pen >drive format. Sorry, gotcha now. Again, a pen drive is less volatile than a floppy or nothing (and they really are the options). > >> And now it seems many of them do (BMW Diagnostics, the Suntune systems >> are two for sure). And the John Deere forward harvesters as I found >> out previously. ;-) > >They do now yes, and IME much less reliable for it. Oh. Not seen that myself but .. >The simplest was >Hondas idea of a flashing LED on the ECU. It simply flashed a two digit >code, which you cross-referenced with the manual, and found what was >wrong in a couple of minutes. Yes, built in like POST beeps, bound to be more reliable than trying to communicate with it via an external device but would only work whilst the possible error combinations remains under 1,000,000. (thinks of some �15,000 "Simon says" car based game). ;-) > More recently I've seen the Windows based >units getting to the point of being chucked across the workshop, or >attacked by a welding torch (that kind of thing), when you spent an hour >trying to communicate with the vehicle. Hmm, mate plugs (8 grand's worth) of (Windows based) Suntune into the suitable bus and reads away. > >In fact the agricultural stuff has been way ahead of cars for years. Ooor, didn't expect that. ;-) Cheers, T i m
From: zoara on 24 Nov 2009 13:32 T i m <news(a)spaced.me.uk> wrote: > On Sat, 21 Nov 2009 22:11:02 +0000, thewildrover(a)me.com (Andy Hewitt) > wrote: > > >One thing to consider as a possibility is the chance of copying a > >corrupt file into a backup. With the types that overwrite existing > >files, this is a very high possibility, and means you could easily > > copy > >a corrupt file at the time of an imminent system failure. > > Of course (so you will have lost nothing in that instance) ....except the original, non-corrupted file. > but none of > that is what this ClickFree solution is all about (and this isn't > particularly to you). ;-) I wonder who it's to, Mister "I'm not going to reply to zoara". Grow up. > 1) It provides a hands off provision of 'a backup' [1] where one might > not otherwise be done at all. If you wanted a history of backups then > there is nothing stopping you copying the backup folder onto another > drive / computer or simply renaming the folder, forcing a fresh backup > next time. All too complicated for a std user though. Yes, it is too complicated, which is hy you want a system that does it for you. > Also, how big > might a backup drive need to be to *guarantee* you weren't carrying a > corrupt backup file with a first in first out overwrite system (like > TM)? [2] There are no guarantees, of course, but the recommended size is easy to work out: n+ds where n is your current set of data, d is the average delta, and s is the number of snapshots you want to keep. To handhold you through that one, let's say you have 100GB of data (n) and half a gig changes daily (d). If you want two years of data with Time Machine that's 7 days plus 24 months, or 31 snapshots (s). End result, n+ds = 116GB drive required. The same sort of figures apply for other backup systems that keep deltas on a similar frequency. On a ClickFree, you'll be able to fit it all on a 100GB drive rather than 116GB, but will have to spot that corrupt (or simply accidentally screwed up) file within a day, rather than within two years. For the sake of the extra cost of a 116GB disk over a 100GB disk, I'd rather have the luxury of two years to notice I'd accidentally applied a Gaussian blur to my favourite lolcat image. > 2) The backup media is (typically) disconnected once the backup is > complete so no chance of a power surge destroying computer AND backup > hardware / data. [2] No different to pretty much any backup system that checks for backup volumes being mounted, then. In fact, I'm not sure there *are* any that don't do this. Or you could leave the disk plugged in, just like with your ClickFree. Entirely up to you in both cases. > 3) Because of it's portability (and the fact that it's *normally > disconnected*) it is easier to take > leave off site. [2] Again, no difference with that and any other backup system. If you normally leave either connected, then it's normally connected. If you normally disconnect, it's normally disconnected. No difference. > 4) It's faster than a complete (system) backup and a system backup > would be little use to most std users. Except when the disk dies. You could plunge my laptop in the bath and hand me the latest model and I would thank you for the upgrade; if I'd been "backed up" with ClickFree the hassle of getting back to where I was - if it was even possible - would probably make the upgrade no longer worth it. And as for time taken, plug it in overnight for the first backup, and subsequent deltas take minutes or less. No difference in time between that and the ClickFree (actually, the ClickFree is probably slower as it seems to need to scan each time, rather than just creating a catalogue like decent backup systems do). > 5) It also lends itself to being used as a portable data drive (rather > than backup per-se). Mixing data storage and backups? Now *that* is foolhardy. Nevertheless, it can be done with almost every single backup system out there if you insist. No advantage with ClickFree, again. > eg. Mate runs garage. He uses Sage for his accounts and the old > Windows 3.1 'Cardfile' for his phone book,vehicle history and a couple > of others.[3] He also types the odd document and saves the odd > vehicle related picture. As he's about to finish for the night he > plugs in his ClickFree drive and it automatically copies all new / > modified files to the drive and he puts the drive in his pocket. When > he gets home he can 'restore' any / all of his data to his home PC for > extra access (He can't use Macs as many of the apps he uses are > Windows only, like the Autodata CD's [4]). > > Simples. ;-) Any mirroring system can do that. I used to plug in the SD card in my Treo every morning - it would sync all changes between the disk and the card, and I'd be able to access the files and make changes to them whilst at work. It's nothing special. > Did you read Elliott's proposed final solution for his backup? Yes. Did you? ClickFree would be a far, far worse solution for his needs than Time Machine was. > [1] And we are particularly talking Windows / non TM here, since I > found out the Mac use was far too restricted. Most backup systems actually back things up. Time Machine is not special in that respect. There are probably far more proper backup systems on Windows than there are on the Mac; shame you chose something that's, frankly, a bit of a waste of money considering what else is out there. > Plus, it's probably that > 'Mac users' are a) actually going to be producing 'data' and b) more > likely to understand the risks and already doing something about it. Point a) makes no sense; what does it mean? Windows users use their computers, Mac users use their computers. What makes you think one produces data and the other doesn't. Point b) could be right, but regardless of platform there are users who neither know nor care about backups. Telling them to "just plug this in, it means if things go wrong you don't have to spend days getting things back the way they were" is worthwhile; but only if the backup system actually will save then that time. In many circumstances, the ClickFree won't, and there are plenty of alternatives that will. > [2] Better to have access to a reasonable backup than no access to a > perfect one. They are the only choices for many. There is no perfect backup. There are many that are better than ClickFree, though. I concede that if they don't have a Mac, setting one up may be beyond many users, but personally I'd rather spend ten minutes installing a proper backup app than deal withbthe potential fallout when they realise that they can't get their stuff back after "backing up" with ClickFree. And surely, surely there are actual real backup systems that use the same "idiot-proof" setup mechanisms as ClickFree? Still, yet another reason to recommend a Mac. I could write the instructions for setting up a full system backup in a single text message (buy a xxxGB drive, plug it in, select "yes"), could write the instructions for a full system restore on a post-it, and could talk through a specific file restore in a few minutes. -zoara- -- email: nettid1 at fastmail dot fm
From: Pd on 24 Nov 2009 14:50 Tim Streater <timstreater(a)waitrose.com> wrote: > Here we're dealing with a technical question. If however you make a > statement like "there are people I'd like to shove red hot pokers up the > bums of", then you can expect a different reaction Not least from the people whose bums are in peril. -- Pd
From: Bruce Horrocks on 24 Nov 2009 17:17
Rowland McDonnell wrote: > Hmm - I'd rather be able to invoke it by dropping the directory I want > on to something. Maybe I'll be able to figure something out about that. Easiest way to do this is to use an Automator script. - Start Automator, choose Application as the type. - Drag the 'Run Shell Script' action to the right-hand pane. - Change the 'Pass input' drop-down to 'as arguments'. - Replace the script that it automatically inserts with the one I posted yesterday. - Add the line "exit 0" to the very end of the script (to suppress error dialogs) - Save as 'TeXtidy.app' (or similar) and you're done. Simply drop the folder you want to clean up onto the 'TeXtidy.app' icon and it does its stuff. I've emailed you a copy - but don't run it until you've opened it using the Automator app and examined its contents. >>> And one to open a pdf file in Preview, change page size/orientation to >>> DL envelope/landscape, identify which pages in the pdf file have a paper >>> size matching DL envelope (job made easier by the fact that they're all >>> at the end - and I'd not mind typing in a single number if the machine >>> couldn't work that bit out), print 'em out using single sided best >>> quality printing (defined by a preset), and then put page >>> size/orientation back to A4 portrait. >> This is harder because it depends on what scripting support is >> built-into Preview and/or the print dialogue handler. I'll have a go but >> it might end up being specific to my printer rather than yours. Okay I've had a look and it's not good news. Preview has no scripting support whatsoever so nothing can be done there. Adobe Reader 9 (assuming you were willing to install that and print using it) has a very complete set of scripting commands which do absolutely nothing. It would have been better if Adobe hadn't bothered to add a dictionary in the first place. So, I'm afraid, it looks like you're stuck[1] with doing it manually. File feedback to Apple is all I can suggest. [1] Unless you have access to another app that can open PDFs e.g. Photoshop that might be scriptable. Regards, -- Bruce Horrocks Surrey England (bruce at scorecrow dot com) |