Toshiba laptop aggravation
in [Design]
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From: Martin Brown on 12 Mar 2010 04:40 D Yuniskis wrote: > Hi Martin, > > Martin Brown wrote: >> D Yuniskis wrote: >>> Hi John, >>> >>> John Larkin wrote: >>>> On Thu, 11 Mar 2010 09:38:49 -0700, D Yuniskis >>>> <not.going.to.be(a)seen.com> wrote: >>> >>> I've held onto a Compaq "Portable 386" (lunchbox, not the >>> luggable). Big, yes. And had to hack the BIOS to get >>> support for even a 300 *MB* disk. But, keeps two ISA slots >>> available for me (something I don't have in any of the >>> other machines, here). >> >> Wow. That goes back a long way. I used to have one of those it was >> like carrying a car battery around with you. Powerful in its day. > > Yup. :> The plasma screen brings back warm and fuzzy memories > of playing Empire on Plato (though obviously the Compaq's display > is much smaller!). It's nice in that I can disassemble it I preferred Zork. > *repeatedly* for upgrades, repairs, etc. Try that with a > laptop and you quickly end up with a bunch of broken plastic > parts that you have to *tape* together. :< They were still a fairly tight squeeze to dismantle. I recall taking the next one (much smaller) apart to install a Cyrix coprocessor taking most of a day with a very complex dismantle and reassemble process. > >>> Unfortunately, I don't have another machine with a 5" floppy >>> so I can't create the "SETUP floppy" to reinitialize the CMOS >>> now that the battery died. (<frown> I was smart enough to save >>> images of all the floppies -- but forgot to save a drive that >>> could write them... other than the one in the Compaq!) >> >> You might be able to trick it into booting despite the CMOS being >> empty by powering it up leaving for a few minutes and then switch off >> and restart. With any luck enough power to put the CMOS into a default >> safe state will stay around just long enough on capacitors. Try a few >> variants of power on, reset reboot. You only have to get lucky once! > > I've replaced the battery. Problem is it sees the CMOS as > "corrupt". So, the hard drive is unrecognizable (since the > "type" information is no longer valid in the CMOS!). > > That means booting off the 5" floppy. :> If I had a bootable > floppy, chances are it would have been the SETUP floppy! :-/ OK. But any bootable 5.25" floppy and a CMOS editor ought to get you back on your feet. > >> If it will boot once then use RS232 or parallel port networking to >> move the files across. > > If I can get it to boot, I have a parallel port NIC that > gives me about 70KB/s -- which is what I use normally > (since sneakernet is not an option when you have no other > 5" drives!). The other way I have used to get into very dead in the water PCs is to make a bootable CDROM and install a self contained Adaptec SCSI card that tries to grab control at bootup. This might work if you have a spare ISA slot. You can also get hard disks mounted on an ISA card (or rather you could in those dim and distant days). > > Problem is just getting the SETUP image onto 5" media. > > I recently rescued a Portable 3 (286 but w/ same 5" floppy). > I will try to get *it* to write an image for me which I > can then carry over to the '386. > > And, then remember to keep bootable copies of this media > available (instead of just "blanks"!) :-( Careless. I suspect I still have some DOS 2.10 bootable disks in the attic somewhere - whether or not they are still readable is another matter. I have a Z80 BCPL compiler on 8" floppies lurking somewhere too. Good luck. Perhaps someone nearby will send you a 5" boot disk. Regards, Martin Brown
From: D Yuniskis on 12 Mar 2010 11:52 Hi Martin, Martin Brown wrote: > D Yuniskis wrote: [attributions elided] >> *repeatedly* for upgrades, repairs, etc. Try that with a >> laptop and you quickly end up with a bunch of broken plastic >> parts that you have to *tape* together. :< > > They were still a fairly tight squeeze to dismantle. I recall taking the > next one (much smaller) apart to install a Cyrix coprocessor taking most > of a day with a very complex dismantle and reassemble process. Laptops use plastic "snaps" to keep things together. These invariably break. :< Hardest thing I found with the lunchboxes is getting the 6" (?) screws lined up properly on reassembly. >>>> Unfortunately, I don't have another machine with a 5" floppy >>>> so I can't create the "SETUP floppy" to reinitialize the CMOS >>>> now that the battery died. (<frown> I was smart enough to save >>>> images of all the floppies -- but forgot to save a drive that >>>> could write them... other than the one in the Compaq!) >>> >>> You might be able to trick it into booting despite the CMOS being >>> empty by powering it up leaving for a few minutes and then switch off >>> and restart. With any luck enough power to put the CMOS into a >>> default safe state will stay around just long enough on capacitors. >>> Try a few variants of power on, reset reboot. You only have to get >>> lucky once! >> >> I've replaced the battery. Problem is it sees the CMOS as >> "corrupt". So, the hard drive is unrecognizable (since the >> "type" information is no longer valid in the CMOS!). >> >> That means booting off the 5" floppy. :> If I had a bootable >> floppy, chances are it would have been the SETUP floppy! :-/ > > OK. But any bootable 5.25" floppy and a CMOS editor ought to get you > back on your feet. "Any" 5" floppy leaves me exactly in the same predicament. :> If I can write a floppy, I can write the *right* floppy! >>> If it will boot once then use RS232 or parallel port networking to >>> move the files across. >> >> If I can get it to boot, I have a parallel port NIC that >> gives me about 70KB/s -- which is what I use normally >> (since sneakernet is not an option when you have no other >> 5" drives!). > > The other way I have used to get into very dead in the water PCs is to > make a bootable CDROM and install a self contained Adaptec SCSI card > that tries to grab control at bootup. This might work if you have a > spare ISA slot. You can also get hard disks mounted on an ISA card (or > rather you could in those dim and distant days). Ah, I might still have an AHA 1542CF in my stash. That's a possibility. Or, I can just drag an old PC home, write the image, and trash the PC. (but that doesn't solve the problem for "next time") >> Problem is just getting the SETUP image onto 5" media. >> >> I recently rescued a Portable 3 (286 but w/ same 5" floppy). >> I will try to get *it* to write an image for me which I >> can then carry over to the '386. >> >> And, then remember to keep bootable copies of this media >> available (instead of just "blanks"!) :-( > > Careless. It gets hard making sure you keep: - drives for every type of media you have - utilities for every file format you use - OS's for every utility you run - machines to support each OS... After a few decades, the combinations tend to add up! :> > I suspect I still have some DOS 2.10 bootable disks in the attic > somewhere - whether or not they are still readable is another matter. > I have a Z80 BCPL compiler on 8" floppies lurking somewhere too. > > Good luck. Perhaps someone nearby will send you a 5" boot disk. <shrug> Not a rush. I could fetch an old machine *today* and get it off my list. But, it's not "pressing". And, it doesn't address "tomorrow". Maybe I take apart a USB floppy and see what's inside...
From: Joerg on 12 Mar 2010 11:46 D Yuniskis wrote: > Hi Martin, > > Martin Brown wrote: [...] >> I suspect I still have some DOS 2.10 bootable disks in the attic >> somewhere - whether or not they are still readable is another matter. >> I have a Z80 BCPL compiler on 8" floppies lurking somewhere too. >> >> Good luck. Perhaps someone nearby will send you a 5" boot disk. > > <shrug> Not a rush. I could fetch an old machine *today* > and get it off my list. But, it's not "pressing". And, it > doesn't address "tomorrow". > That's what the storage shelves in the Garage are for :-)) I have kept an old machine just for that purpose, because it can read 5-1/4" floppies. Sometimes I have to tackle production issues for clients. Often goes like this: "The computerized machine ran perfectly fine for over 20 years, then yesterday there was a loud screeching sound and ..." > Maybe I take apart a USB floppy and see what's inside... Let us know what you find out. My wife would love if this big old machine could go ;-) -- Regards, Joerg http://www.analogconsultants.com/ "gmail" domain blocked because of excessive spam. Use another domain or send PM.
From: D Yuniskis on 12 Mar 2010 12:34 Hi Joerg, Joerg wrote: > D Yuniskis wrote: >> Hi Martin, >> >> Martin Brown wrote: > >>> I suspect I still have some DOS 2.10 bootable disks in the attic >>> somewhere - whether or not they are still readable is another matter. >>> I have a Z80 BCPL compiler on 8" floppies lurking somewhere too. >>> >>> Good luck. Perhaps someone nearby will send you a 5" boot disk. >> >> <shrug> Not a rush. I could fetch an old machine *today* >> and get it off my list. But, it's not "pressing". And, it >> doesn't address "tomorrow". > > That's what the storage shelves in the Garage are for :-)) <grin> I picked up some industrial shelving at a local auction. They are 7' tall, 18" deep, 42" wide "bays". I have 6 bays assembled (currently). I.e., 21 feet "wide". Shelves are space about 6" apart, vertically (i.e., 12 shelves * 6 bays = 72 shelves). That doesn't count the 4 roll top cabinets in which I store "small things") nor the large 2' x 4' shelving unit. Nor the wall of "parts drawers" (e.g., for small components). Too much "stuph". One shelving "bay" is full of boxes of handtools (hammers, screwdrivers, wrenches, torx drivers, chisels, etc.) and *small* power tools (drills, belt sanders, drill sharpener, cordless tools, etc.). Two are full of cables (SCSI {Old Sun, Centronics, 50 pin HD, 68 pin, VHDCI, Old Apple, etc.}, video {"VGA", Sun/SGI, 4BNC, etc.}, serial/parallel {DP9, DB25, centronics}, "ethernet" cables, 10BaseT coax, "specialty" cables, etc.). Another is full of small peripherals (pointing devices, motion controllers, network appliances, USB widgets, etc.). There are several programmable power supplies, multimeters, freq synthesizers and counters, etc. I.e., there's no more *room* to "waste" on something as commonplace as a PC. :> > I have kept an old machine just for that purpose, because it can read > 5-1/4" floppies. Sometimes I have to tackle production issues for > clients. Often goes like this: "The computerized machine ran perfectly > fine for over 20 years, then yesterday there was a loud screeching sound > and ..." Yup. This is what prompted me to hold onto the lunchbox. I've also got a "bare board" system that I use for handling the 8" drives. The compaq gave me the 5" drive, a "clean" DOS implementation, two ISA slots and was semi-portable. I just hadn't thought ahead to hold onto actual bootable SETUP disk. :< >> Maybe I take apart a USB floppy and see what's inside... > > Let us know what you find out. My wife would love if this big old > machine could go ;-) I am hoping that not all of them are "highly integrated". One that I examined some time ago was quite obviously designed *for* the drive that it was *part* of. I am hoping to find one with a small ribbon between "controller" and "drive". That would be encouraging. Perhaps I will check this afternoon -- if I remember. :<
From: JosephKK on 14 Mar 2010 01:11
On Thu, 11 Mar 2010 10:10:56 -0700, D Yuniskis <not.going.to.be(a)seen.com> wrote: >Hi John, > >John Larkin wrote: >> On Thu, 11 Mar 2010 09:38:49 -0700, D Yuniskis >> <not.going.to.be(a)seen.com> wrote: >> >>> John Larkin wrote: >>> >>> [win98 laptops] >>> >>>> I use them with real PS/2 mice. Those mousepads are awful. >>> Most mousepads are sited in the wrong place. But, then >>> again, with a laptop you haven't much choice... >>> >>>> It's weird to buy a computer for less than a scope probe. >>> <frown> We discard laptops with anything less than a Piii. >> >> Right. Big companies unload, sometimes, thousands of working laptops. >> Brokers buy them by the pallet, refurb, and resell them with a >> warranty. They can be handy to have around sometimes. It doesn't take >> a Core Duo to wiggle bits on a parallel port. > >I had a decent older laptop with *built-in* AC power supply >(eliminates the problem of having to buy replacement batteries >for something that is rarely used :< ). But, I opted to discard >it in one of my periodic "purges". > >I've held onto a Compaq "Portable 386" (lunchbox, not the >luggable). Big, yes. And had to hack the BIOS to get >support for even a 300 *MB* disk. But, keeps two ISA slots >available for me (something I don't have in any of the >other machines, here). > >Unfortunately, I don't have another machine with a 5" floppy >so I can't create the "SETUP floppy" to reinitialize the CMOS >now that the battery died. (<frown> I was smart enough to save >images of all the floppies -- but forgot to save a drive that >could write them... other than the one in the Compaq!) > >I am hoping, someday, to have time to see if I can hack a >USB 3" floppy drive to accept a 5" drive, instead (no idea >how closely the controllers in those floppies are wed to >the actual 3" drive! I don't expect much joy...) > >> You can get a clean working '98 laptop on ebay for around $50. A >> refurb IBM from a broker, with 6 month warranty and a good battery, >> goes for about $250. I still have a 5-1/4 inch 1.2 MB drive. Might i help you? |