Tube vs. Solid State Preamp
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From: GregS on 30 Mar 2010 15:09 In article <5636780f-8da5-4bdf-a991-2d10e2c27dc1(a)y17g2000yqd.googlegroups.com>, Chris <christopher.maness(a)gmail.com> wrote: >On Mar 30, 8:56=A0am, John Larkin ><jjlar...(a)highNOTlandTHIStechnologyPART.com> wrote: >> On Tue, 30 Mar 2010 08:56:08 -0700 (PDT), Chris >> >> <christopher.man...(a)gmail.com> wrote: >> >With today's modern technology, is it possible to make a solid state >> >preamp that is as quiet as a good tube pre? >> >> >I am thinking about building a preamp. >> >> >Thanks, >> >Chris >> >> Tubes are noisy. >> >> John > >I have a guitar amplifier that is all tube. It is very, very quiet >compared to the SS amps in the band. I was assuming that they did not >suffer from Nyquest noise like SS amps do. However, we have a Alan >and Heath sound board, and those are the best sounding boards I have >ever heard. Extremely quiet pre's and warm sounding. So, I guess it >is possible with SS. They usually try to pack high gain, and usually try to get distortion in the guitar amp. I tried to denoise one commercial amp once, but its mostly about having so many circuits in series. Its easy to get a low noise design with simple circuits. greg
From: Chris on 30 Mar 2010 14:23 On Mar 30, 12:09 pm, zekfr...(a)zekfrivolous.com (GregS) wrote: > In article <5636780f-8da5-4bdf-a991-2d10e2c27...(a)y17g2000yqd.googlegroups..com>, Chris <christopher.man...(a)gmail.com> wrote: > > > > >On Mar 30, 8:56=A0am, John Larkin > ><jjlar...(a)highNOTlandTHIStechnologyPART.com> wrote: > >> On Tue, 30 Mar 2010 08:56:08 -0700 (PDT), Chris > > >> <christopher.man...(a)gmail.com> wrote: > >> >With today's modern technology, is it possible to make a solid state > >> >preamp that is as quiet as a good tube pre? > > >> >I am thinking about building a preamp. > > >> >Thanks, > >> >Chris > > >> Tubes are noisy. > > >> John > > >I have a guitar amplifier that is all tube. It is very, very quiet > >compared to the SS amps in the band. I was assuming that they did not > >suffer from Nyquest noise like SS amps do. However, we have a Alan > >and Heath sound board, and those are the best sounding boards I have > >ever heard. Extremely quiet pre's and warm sounding. So, I guess it > >is possible with SS. > > They usually try to pack high gain, and usually try to get distortion > in the guitar amp. I tried to denoise one commercial amp once, but > its mostly about having so many circuits in series. Its easy to get > a low noise design with simple circuits. > > greg I have decided my fullcoat deck is a little heavy and touchy for field use, so bought a PCM recorder to record film dialog. It has really good sound when you feed it a hot signal so the thing is running at unity gain. However, when you engage the higher gain settings. It gets VERY noisy. I checked my local guitar center, and they have some fairly cheap models. I will swing buy today, and play with them to see if I get acceptable results. If not, I can just build my own, but for as cheap as these things are, I can definitely try them out. Regards, Chris Maness
From: George Jefferson on 30 Mar 2010 15:09 "Chris" <christopher.maness(a)gmail.com> wrote in message news:05eb4ffb-d100-4dae-96d8-c2e7520ca659(a)k13g2000yqe.googlegroups.com... > With today's modern technology, is it possible to make a solid state > preamp that is as quiet as a good tube pre? > > I am thinking about building a preamp. > Solid state is more ideal than a tube which is why it generally is not good for our ears. The reason is that when it "fails" it does so harshly. When a tube "fails" it does it in a way that is more musical. What makes a solid state amp more ideal also makes it more problematic for audio. e.g., when a solid state amp clips it does so very good. In audio though it is not good because the harsh clipping introduces harsh odd harmonics. Hence the reason why tube distortion generally sounds better(which takes the clipping issue to the extreme). For clean sounds a solid state will generally be better because it is much more linear. But tubes generally add these "soft" distortions(or rather non-linearities) that make the audio more musical. It really depends on what you are trying to achieve. If you want an uncolored clean signal then solid state is the way to go. If you want distortion then tubes are the way to go. If you want that warm tube sound then obviously tubes are the way to go. You can approximate tubes with solid state but it's always a "fudge". In any case most people don't have the ears to really tell any substantial difference between clean tube and clean solid.
From: ehsjr on 30 Mar 2010 15:39 Joerg wrote: > Jim Thompson wrote: > >> On Tue, 30 Mar 2010 09:49:03 -0700, Joerg <invalid(a)invalid.invalid> >> wrote: >> >>> John Larkin wrote: >>> >>>> On Tue, 30 Mar 2010 08:56:08 -0700 (PDT), Chris >>>> <christopher.maness(a)gmail.com> wrote: >>>> >>>>> With today's modern technology, is it possible to make a solid state >>>>> preamp that is as quiet as a good tube pre? >>>>> >>> Sure, but it will be shunned by tube-freaks :-) >>> >>> >>>>> I am thinking about building a preamp. >>>>> >>>>> Thanks, >>>>> Chris >>>> >>>> Tubes are noisy. >>> >>> Not at all. I remember when I was young and those super low noise RF >>> FETs came out. Everyone (who had the dough to buy those) jumped on >>> them, only to find out that the old nuvistor preamp was in about the >>> same ballpark noisewise but had a dynamic range from here to the >>> Klondike while them thar newfangled trainsistahs didn't. >> >> >> If you know how to bias BJT's for low noise, you can make phenomenally >> low audio noise preamp's. >> >> Sheeesh! Back when I was a kid I could make a reasonably low noise >> preamp with Ge devices... low current and low VCE. >> > > When I was a kid that wasn't needed. The "lowest noise" audio source > were 45rpm records and even that didn't matter. Because in our time it > was all rock music. The louder the better. So the race was on who could > build the biggest honking amplifier. My limit was reached when the > breaker on a typical European 230V/16A circuit would trip off upon a > heavy-handed twang on the electric guitar :-) > A twang filter! :-)
From: Chris on 30 Mar 2010 17:12
On Mar 30, 12:39 pm, ehsjr <eh...(a)nospamverizon.net> wrote: > Joerg wrote: > > Jim Thompson wrote: > > >> On Tue, 30 Mar 2010 09:49:03 -0700, Joerg <inva...(a)invalid.invalid> > >> wrote: > > >>> John Larkin wrote: > > >>>> On Tue, 30 Mar 2010 08:56:08 -0700 (PDT), Chris > >>>> <christopher.man...(a)gmail.com> wrote: > > >>>>> With today's modern technology, is it possible to make a solid state > >>>>> preamp that is as quiet as a good tube pre? > > >>> Sure, but it will be shunned by tube-freaks :-) > > >>>>> I am thinking about building a preamp. > > >>>>> Thanks, > >>>>> Chris > > >>>> Tubes are noisy. > > >>> Not at all. I remember when I was young and those super low noise RF > >>> FETs came out. Everyone (who had the dough to buy those) jumped on > >>> them, only to find out that the old nuvistor preamp was in about the > >>> same ballpark noisewise but had a dynamic range from here to the > >>> Klondike while them thar newfangled trainsistahs didn't. > > >> If you know how to bias BJT's for low noise, you can make phenomenally > >> low audio noise preamp's. > > >> Sheeesh! Back when I was a kid I could make a reasonably low noise > >> preamp with Ge devices... low current and low VCE. > > > When I was a kid that wasn't needed. The "lowest noise" audio source > > were 45rpm records and even that didn't matter. Because in our time it > > was all rock music. The louder the better. So the race was on who could > > build the biggest honking amplifier. My limit was reached when the > > breaker on a typical European 230V/16A circuit would trip off upon a > > heavy-handed twang on the electric guitar :-) > > A twang filter! :-) I went down to guitar center, and found that they don't actually sell solid state pre amps. I picked up a cheap one -- 12AX7 pre -- as I found that it had a fairly low noise floor. I am not trying to go high end, I just wanted something that was markedly quieter than the stock pre amp on the digital voice recorder. The nice thing is now I have manual gain control, and the line level input on the digital voice recorder does not have AGC which is a good thing. I hate that pumping sound from the AGC. Thanks, Chris Maness |