Two interesting tcl posts on reddit
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From: keithv on 30 Mar 2010 14:45 Two interesting items appeared recently on Reddit/programming, generating some interesting comments. The first was "Tcl still in use, still improving", linking to an article by Cameron Laird http://www.reddit.com/r/programming/comments/bjonx/tcl_still_in_use_still_improving/ (article at http://www.itworld.com/development/102598/tcl-tips-timestamps) The second was by David Welton, motivated by "after seeing the recent thread about Tcl and Tk, I decided it was finally time to write up some of what I saw go wrong with Tcl and Tk." http://www.reddit.com/r/programming/comments/bk87r/where_tcl_and_tk_went_wrong/ (article at http://journal.dedasys.com/2010/03/30/where-tcl-and-tk-went-wrong) Keith
From: Robert H on 31 Mar 2010 09:33 On Mar 30, 2:45 pm, keithv <kvet...(a)gmail.com> wrote: > Two interesting items appeared recently on Reddit/programming, > generating some interesting comments. > > The first was "Tcl still in use, still improving", linking to an > article by Cameron Lairdhttp://www.reddit.com/r/programming/comments/bjonx/tcl_still_in_use_s... > (article athttp://www.itworld.com/development/102598/tcl-tips-timestamps) > > The second was by David Welton, motivated by "after seeing the recent > thread about Tcl and Tk, I decided it was finally time to write up > some of > what I saw go wrong with Tcl and Tk."http://www.reddit.com/r/programming/comments/bk87r/where_tcl_and_tk_w... > (article athttp://journal.dedasys.com/2010/03/30/where-tcl-and-tk-went-wrong) > > Keith Both are interesting reads. Robert
From: tom.rmadilo on 31 Mar 2010 12:20 On Mar 31, 6:33 am, Robert H <sigz...(a)gmail.com> wrote: > On Mar 30, 2:45 pm, keithv <kvet...(a)gmail.com> wrote: > > > http://www.itworld.com/development/102598/tcl-tips-timestamps > > http://journal.dedasys.com/2010/03/30/where-tcl-and-tk-went-wrong > Both are interesting reads. The first article, by Cameron Laird hints at another article, coming out next week about concurrency in Tcl. Basically, concurrency, and the thread/memory model is what sets Tcl far apart from all the other mentioned languages in the first article. The second article is only interesting as one person's opinion based upon a somewhat unsuccessful project: Apache Rivet...one of several not very usable Tcl engines for Apache, and also based upon his knowledge of public/open source projects. The comments about Tk seems strange: it is so easy to use, there are too many examples of poorly designed applications floating around. Also not very clear why php is included in the list of languages. Still both are worth reading.
From: Donal K. Fellows on 31 Mar 2010 16:44 On 31 Mar, 17:20, "tom.rmadilo" <tom.rmad...(a)gmail.com> wrote: > The second article is only interesting as one person's opinion based > upon a somewhat unsuccessful project: Apache Rivet...one of several > not very usable Tcl engines for Apache, and also based upon his > knowledge of public/open source projects. The deep problem is a fundamental difference between Apache2's thread model and Tcl's. (IIRC, they assume a shared memory model and Tcl uses an apartment model.) That made porting Rivet to a more recent Apache than it was designed for almost impossible. Or at least that was how I understood it. Donal.
From: David N. Welton on 31 Mar 2010 18:07
> The comments about Tk seems > strange: it is so easy to use, there are too many examples of poorly > designed applications floating around. It's not a problem limited to Tk. PHP has the exact same problem: it made web stuff really easy, but gained a lot of users who did not write good code. Lowering the barrier to entry is generally a positive thing, but it often results in a lot of "marginal" programmers and projects. Over time, with PHP, that has given the resulting code a less than stellar reputation (and it doesn't help that the language itself isn't really a thing of beauty, either). It's something you have to manage, and in hindsight, the Tk community probably ought to have done more to foster a culture of creating good GUIs. If you look at otherwise excellent books, like Brent Welch's, you'll find all kinds of details about how to use the Tk widgets, but not much material telling the reader how to go about creating a "good" GUI. The point is that "enabling" people isn't enough, you have to help give them some direction too, which is ultimately a cultural thing, rather than a technological thing. > Also not very clear why php is > included in the list of languages. I'm not sure I follow you. PHP is a programming language that is very widely used, which makes it quite sensible to compare it to Tcl. |