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From: Bob McGowan on 8 Apr 2010 13:30
On 04/08/2010 07:17 AM, Stephen Powell wrote:
> On Thu, 8 Apr 2010 09:57:17 -0400 (EDT), briand(a)aracnet.com wrote:
>> On Thu, 8 Apr 2010 08:09:09 -0400 (EDT), Stephen Powell wrote:
>>>
>>> BTW, does anyone know why Ubuntu users seem to want to use the Debian>
>>> forums? Don't they have forums of their own?
>>
>> Yes they do, and in fact I find them helpful even though I'm running
>> Debian :-)
>
> I have occasionally found a solution to a problem I'm having on Debian
> by searching the internet and finding the solution posted on an Ubuntu
> forum. But I never *post* there because I run Debian, not Ubuntu.
> What I don't understand is why Ubuntu users *post* here, when they
> actually run Ubuntu. According to the OP of this thread, he posted here
> because he posted on the Ubuntu forums first and no-one answered.
> I wonder how common that is, and why. Ubuntu alleges a larger installed

--gone:-)

>

I run Ubuntu on my laptop, because I got tired of the manual Nvidia
setup every time the kernel changed.

But I use Debian at work and on systems that don't need any proprietary
stuff.

I've found some good technical help from Ubuntu forums, but it seems to
generally come from Ubuntu "personnel" rather than users.

So, Ubuntu seems to attract a less 'technical' group of users.

And, since Ubuntu uses Debian as its starting point, less technical
users could assume using Debian lists is OK.

The above is guess work based on observation, not critical analysis.

YMMV. ;)

--
Bob McGowan


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From: Ron Johnson on 9 Apr 2010 01:00
On 2010-04-08 23:49, Freeman wrote:
> On Thu, Apr 08, 2010 at 10:31:33PM -0500, Cybe R. Wizard wrote:
>> On Thu, 08 Apr 2010 21:58:38 -0500
>> Ron Johnson <ron.l.johnson(a)cox.net> wrote:
>>
>>> On 2010-04-08 21:38, Stephen Powell wrote:
>>> [snip]
>>>> For some reason, this well-known proverb is going through my head:
>>>>
>>>> Give a man a fish and you feed him for a day.
>>>> Teach a man to fish and you feed him for a lifetime.
>>>>
>>>> I'd rather learn to fish.
>>>>
>>> There's another proverb: Teach a man to fish and he gets angry for
>>> making him work.
>>>
>> Teach a man to fish and he'll sit in a boat and drink beer all day.
>>
>
> Teach a man to drink good Irish Whiskey and there's no telling what might
> happen.
>

After all, the Irish were about to transcend their corporeal forms
when whiskey was discovered...

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From: Freeman on 9 Apr 2010 01:00
On Fri, Apr 09, 2010 at 05:26:20AM +0300, Dotan Cohen wrote:
> > Interesting.� This is the opposite of my experience, where I started friends
> > out on Ubuntu as a way to break them into Linux but they found the amount of
> > updates annoying, and there were some instability issues at different
> > times.� So I switched them to Lenny - sure it took a little more to set up,
> > but now it is set up and stays that way, unlike my/their experiences with
> > Ubuntu.� It's pretty much zero maintenance for me, unlike when they had
> > Ubuntu on their computers.� 5 updates a week, if that many?� I'll take it.
> >
> > Plus, if I can use a non-company based OS that won't install, for example,
> > Ubuntu One, without my choice to not install it, I'll choose that path.� I
> > was kinda disappointed to see Ubuntu starting to include bloatware in their
> > last few releases, just my experience though.
> >
>
> Stability issues and updates are the reasons that I switched _to_
> Ubuntu! Before that it was the early Fedoras. I still think that my
> favourite two Linux OSes were Fedora Core 3 and Ubuntu Feisty.
>
> Maybe I will give Squeeze a round before my next install. I've last
> tested only Lenny.
>

Well, squeeze my be well into the last half of its cycle. They are working
toward a pre-release freeze now.

However, I don't recommend testing without somehow setting up some
qualifications and preparations for yourself. Mine was to become adept at
using aptitude, which I depend on regarding dependency handling, and to and
develop a plan.

The plan:

1. Make a habit of reading about packages on the Debian site.

2. Learn to read bug reports and watch Debian bug tracking.

3. Install and pay attention to both apt-listbugs and apt-listchanges.

4. Get used to a pool of uninstalled upgrades and use the hold function
liberally.

5. Set aptitude to *not* remove unused or obsolete packages and let the cache
bloat indefinitely (large partition).

6. Set an upgrade schedule that allows time to think rather than rush
upgrades between tasks.

7. Stay behind the curve and read the experiences of other testers.

8. Get ready to submit some bug reports as a contribution to the effort.

Still, squeeze has not been the easiest of testing cycles. And one could
get stuck in an difficult situation for a long time.

We seem to have made some recent advancements in ALSA but I think that the
video on some old Radeons like mine is awaiting a entirely new driver.

--
Kind Regards,
Freeman

http://bugs.debian.org/release-critical/


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From: Andrei Popescu on 10 Apr 2010 17:20
On Sun,11.Apr.10, 00:00:24, Dotan Cohen wrote:

> I was thinking of squeeze as (if I'm not mistaken, correct me if I am)
> Lenny is still on KDE 4.2.x and Open Office 2.x. KDE 4.4 is such an
> improvement over 4.2, and OOo 3.2 is worlds ahead of 2.4.

Actually lenny is still on KDE 3.5, but you can get OOo 3.2 from
backports.

Regards,
Andrei
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From: Freeman on 10 Apr 2010 18:20
On Sun, Apr 11, 2010 at 12:12:04AM +0300, Dotan Cohen wrote:
> On 10 April 2010 00:42, Stan Hoeppner <stan(a)hardwarefreak.com> wrote:
> > Stephen Powell put forth on 4/8/2010 9:38 PM:
> >
> >> For some reason, this well-known proverb is going through my head:
> >>
> >> � �Give a man a fish and you feed him for a day.
> >> � �Teach a man to fish and you feed him for a lifetime.
> >>
> >> I'd rather learn to fish.
> >
> > This is exactly the reason I chose Debian 10 years ago when I was looking
> > for my first Linux distro. �I told a friend I wanted a server distro that
> > wasn't going to spoon feed me, but make me learn something about Linux.
> >
> > Casey, a seasoned Debian sysadmin, recommended I download the Debian net
> > install floppies and do my first install from the mirrors, only a compact
> > base install, and to install everything else I needed by hand with apt.
> > That was Potato with a 2.2 kernel.
> >
> > I only use Linux for non-GUI servers. �I don't use desktop Linux. �All my
> > admin'ing requires knuckle busting. ;) �And I like it that way.
> >
>
> But you do understand that desktop users _don't_ want to learn about
> their OS, correct? They want the computer to be as transparent as
> possible in their workflow.
>

Debian is a fantastic OS, created by brilliant people with a brilliant
vision. It is not as difficult for the diligent layman as its reputation
implies if he/she knows and sticks to their original goals as a user.

However, it may never be the desktop candidate for fun exploration during
family hour, excepting the the technologically inclined and strange wannabes
like myself.

--
Kind Regards,
Freeman

http://bugs.debian.org/release-critical/


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