Ultra low frequency VCO
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From: JosephKK on 14 Jul 2010 01:18 On Mon, 12 Jul 2010 21:01:50 -0700, Jim Thompson <To-Email-Use-The-Envelope-Icon(a)On-My-Web-Site.com> wrote: >On Mon, 12 Jul 2010 20:47:12 -0700, >"JosephKK"<quiettechblue(a)yahoo.com> wrote: > >>On Mon, 12 Jul 2010 09:58:32 -0700, Jim Thompson >><To-Email-Use-The-Envelope-Icon(a)On-My-Web-Site.com> wrote: >> >>>On Mon, 12 Jul 2010 08:33:56 -0700, John Larkin >>><jjlarkin(a)highNOTlandTHIStechnologyPART.com> wrote: >>> >>>>On Mon, 12 Jul 2010 10:40:00 -0400, Phil Hobbs >>>><pcdhSpamMeSenseless(a)electrooptical.net> wrote: >>>> >>>>>Jim Thompson wrote: >>>>>> On Fri, 09 Jul 2010 14:08:28 -0400, Phil Hobbs >>>>>> <pcdhSpamMeSenseless(a)electrooptical.net> wrote: >>>>>> >><snip> >>>> >>>>One interesting and often overlooked part is the coaxial ceramic >>>>resonator. It's essentially a shorted transmission line formed in a >>>>block or tube of hi-K ceramic, usually by silver or copper plating it. >>>>They are usually treated by the RF boys as resonators or inductors, >>>>but they really act like time-domain transmission lines. TCs are in >>>>the single-digit PPMs and Qs in the hundreds or thousands. Dielectric >>>>constants are in the hundreds or thousands, so they are very short for >>>>their delay/frequency. >>>> >>>>Remarkable parts. I use them to make instant-start/instant-stop >>>>oscillators in the 600 MHz range. As a VCO, they will have very low >>>>phase noise, somewhere between an LC and a quartz crystal. >>>> >>>>John >>> >>>I've been "using" them... designing them into GPS LO's since before >>>you were born ;-) >>> >>> ...Jim Thompson >> >>That is really good since GPS itself is not that old. > >I did my first Garmin chip more than 20 years ago. > > ...Jim Thompson Larkin only wishes he were that young. No matter, he posts just like such a brash young punk.
From: JosephKK on 14 Jul 2010 01:41 On Tue, 13 Jul 2010 06:42:03 +0000 (UTC), Geoff C <not(a)mail.com> wrote: > >> >> So I guess that all of the suggestions that have been given will work. >> Or none of them. Or some, if only the OP would tell us the rest of >> his requirement. >> > >The OP seems to be interested in syncing his PV solar system to the grid, >at least thats what I infer from reading some other of his posts. Kind of >makes the 100dBc spec look silly if so. If that is the case, a simple twist on the standard PFC circuit will do it. Though that may not meet all of the safety requirements, which are rather difficult.
From: JosephKK on 14 Jul 2010 01:47 On Wed, 14 Jul 2010 09:04:45 +1000, Grant <omg(a)grrr.id.au> wrote: >On Tue, 13 Jul 2010 08:36:35 -0700, Tim Wescott <tim(a)seemywebsite.com> wrote: > >>On 07/12/2010 11:42 PM, Geoff C wrote: >>>> >>>> So I guess that all of the suggestions that have been given will work. >>>> Or none of them. Or some, if only the OP would tell us the rest of >>>> his requirement. >>>> >>> >>> The OP seems to be interested in syncing his PV solar system to the grid, >>> at least thats what I infer from reading some other of his posts. Kind of >>> makes the 100dBc spec look silly if so. >> >>No kidding! If he's within 10 degrees one way or another that's >>probably plenty good. > >Not quite so good, phase lead to pump energy to mains, lag a little to >suck energy, fully controlled bridges to the mains is scary stuff if >things go wrong. > >Lock onto local mains, connect power, advance phase lead until desired >energy flows. 'Somehow'[1] detect loss of mains while you're driving >power into it so you don't create a powered island if the mains goes off. > >Not something one designs without reference to local regs? > >[1]Dithered local mains reference? I dunno, read about it, unlikely to >go there. >> >>Of far greater concern with PV usage is making sure that putting what is >>essentially a negative resistance on the line won't cause instability, >>or at least knowing exactly what conditions will lead to instability so >>that you may avoid them during installation. >> >>Particularly if you're going to move from your lab with one or two PV >>panels attached to a good solid grid, to some solar farm out in the >>boonies where your PV array is the biggest power source for miles. > >That's for sure :) Why older systems had the big battery banks, some >now are using the mains as their battery, give energy during day, wind >meter back, take energy at night. Only works if a few do it? > >Grant. Actually it works even if a majority of residential and commercial customers do it. The utility gets a distributed peaking plant without capital investment and maintenance, and residential and commercial customers get reduced energy costs, tax rebates, and feel good. Saves the utility companies a bundle. Even makes the nutty regulators happy.
From: keithw86 on 14 Jul 2010 08:04 On Jul 14, 12:47 am, "JosephKK"<quiettechb...(a)yahoo.com> wrote: > On Wed, 14 Jul 2010 09:04:45 +1000, Grant <o...(a)grrr.id.au> wrote: > >On Tue, 13 Jul 2010 08:36:35 -0700, Tim Wescott <t...(a)seemywebsite.com> wrote: > > >>On 07/12/2010 11:42 PM, Geoff C wrote: > > >>>> So I guess that all of the suggestions that have been given will work. > >>>> Or none of them. Or some, if only the OP would tell us the rest of > >>>> his requirement. > > >>> The OP seems to be interested in syncing his PV solar system to the grid, > >>> at least thats what I infer from reading some other of his posts. Kind of > >>> makes the 100dBc spec look silly if so. > > >>No kidding! If he's within 10 degrees one way or another that's > >>probably plenty good. > > >Not quite so good, phase lead to pump energy to mains, lag a little to > >suck energy, fully controlled bridges to the mains is scary stuff if > >things go wrong. > > >Lock onto local mains, connect power, advance phase lead until desired > >energy flows. 'Somehow'[1] detect loss of mains while you're driving > >power into it so you don't create a powered island if the mains goes off.. > > >Not something one designs without reference to local regs? > > >[1]Dithered local mains reference? I dunno, read about it, unlikely to > >go there. > > >>Of far greater concern with PV usage is making sure that putting what is > >>essentially a negative resistance on the line won't cause instability, > >>or at least knowing exactly what conditions will lead to instability so > >>that you may avoid them during installation. > > >>Particularly if you're going to move from your lab with one or two PV > >>panels attached to a good solid grid, to some solar farm out in the > >>boonies where your PV array is the biggest power source for miles. > > >That's for sure :) Why older systems had the big battery banks, some > >now are using the mains as their battery, give energy during day, wind > >meter back, take energy at night. Only works if a few do it? > > >Grant. > > Actually it works even if a majority of residential and commercial > customers do it. The utility gets a distributed peaking plant without > capital investment and maintenance, and residential and commercial > customers get reduced energy costs, tax rebates, and feel good. Saves > the utility companies a bundle. Even makes the nutty regulators happy. Except that it's not a "peaking" plant. The utility has no control over this power. At best it's a (sometimes) baseline plant. A significant share of the electricity generated this way would be difficult to control.
From: John Larkin on 14 Jul 2010 09:49
On Tue, 13 Jul 2010 22:18:09 -0700, "JosephKK"<quiettechblue(a)yahoo.com> wrote: >On Mon, 12 Jul 2010 21:01:50 -0700, Jim Thompson ><To-Email-Use-The-Envelope-Icon(a)On-My-Web-Site.com> wrote: > >>On Mon, 12 Jul 2010 20:47:12 -0700, >>"JosephKK"<quiettechblue(a)yahoo.com> wrote: >> >>>On Mon, 12 Jul 2010 09:58:32 -0700, Jim Thompson >>><To-Email-Use-The-Envelope-Icon(a)On-My-Web-Site.com> wrote: >>> >>>>On Mon, 12 Jul 2010 08:33:56 -0700, John Larkin >>>><jjlarkin(a)highNOTlandTHIStechnologyPART.com> wrote: >>>> >>>>>On Mon, 12 Jul 2010 10:40:00 -0400, Phil Hobbs >>>>><pcdhSpamMeSenseless(a)electrooptical.net> wrote: >>>>> >>>>>>Jim Thompson wrote: >>>>>>> On Fri, 09 Jul 2010 14:08:28 -0400, Phil Hobbs >>>>>>> <pcdhSpamMeSenseless(a)electrooptical.net> wrote: >>>>>>> >>><snip> >>>>> >>>>>One interesting and often overlooked part is the coaxial ceramic >>>>>resonator. It's essentially a shorted transmission line formed in a >>>>>block or tube of hi-K ceramic, usually by silver or copper plating it. >>>>>They are usually treated by the RF boys as resonators or inductors, >>>>>but they really act like time-domain transmission lines. TCs are in >>>>>the single-digit PPMs and Qs in the hundreds or thousands. Dielectric >>>>>constants are in the hundreds or thousands, so they are very short for >>>>>their delay/frequency. >>>>> >>>>>Remarkable parts. I use them to make instant-start/instant-stop >>>>>oscillators in the 600 MHz range. As a VCO, they will have very low >>>>>phase noise, somewhere between an LC and a quartz crystal. >>>>> >>>>>John >>>> >>>>I've been "using" them... designing them into GPS LO's since before >>>>you were born ;-) >>>> >>>> ...Jim Thompson >>> >>>That is really good since GPS itself is not that old. >> >>I did my first Garmin chip more than 20 years ago. >> >> ...Jim Thompson > >Larkin only wishes he were that young. No matter, he posts just like >such a brash young punk. Of course I'd like to be young. Wouldn't you? As far as behaving like a "brash young punk", I plead guilty, with pleasure. I hope to keep designing better and faster, and skiing steeper and faster, for a good long time. Electronics is not something you have to give up designing after the age of 30. I knew people who gave up electronics when transistors replaced tubes, and people who refused to learn how to use programmable logic or microprocessors or whatever. May as well move into a managed-care facility and take up miniature golf. John |