Unify KVM kernel-space and user-space code into a single project
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From: Alexander Graf on 18 Mar 2010 05:30 On 18.03.2010, at 09:56, Ingo Molnar wrote: > > * Avi Kivity <avi(a)redhat.com> wrote: > >> On 03/17/2010 10:10 AM, Ingo Molnar wrote: >>> >>>> It's about who owns the user interface. >>>> >>>> If qemu owns the user interface, than we can satisfy this in a very >>>> simple way by adding a perf monitor command. If we have to support third >>>> party tools, then it significantly complicates things. >>> >>> Of course illogical modularization complicates things 'significantly'. >> >> Who should own the user interface then? > > If qemu was in tools/kvm/ then we wouldnt have such issues. A single patch (or > series of patches) could modify tools/kvm/, arch/x86/kvm/, virt/ and > tools/perf/. It's not a 1:1 connection. There are more users of the KVM interface. To name a few I'm aware of: - Mac-on-Linux (PPC) - Dolphin (PPC) - Xenner (x86) - Kuli (s390) Having a clear userspace interface is the only viable solution there. And if you're interested, look at my MOL enabling patch. It's less than 500 lines of code. The kernel/userspace interface really isn't the difficult part. Getting device emulation working properly, easily and fast is. Alex-- To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe linux-kernel" in the body of a message to majordomo(a)vger.kernel.org More majordomo info at http://vger.kernel.org/majordomo-info.html Please read the FAQ at http://www.tux.org/lkml/
From: Frank Ch. Eigler on 18 Mar 2010 08:40 Ingo Molnar <mingo(a)elte.hu> writes: > [...] > Distributions are very eager to update kernels even in stable periods of the > distro lifetime - they are much less willing to update user-space packages. > [...] Sorry, er, what? What distributions eagerly upgrade kernels in stable periods, were it not primarily motivated by security fixes? What users eagerly replace their kernels? - FChE -- To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe linux-kernel" in the body of a message to majordomo(a)vger.kernel.org More majordomo info at http://vger.kernel.org/majordomo-info.html Please read the FAQ at http://www.tux.org/lkml/
From: Frank Ch. Eigler on 18 Mar 2010 09:30 Hi - > > > [...] > > > Distributions are very eager to update kernels even in stable periods of the > > > distro lifetime - they are much less willing to update user-space packages. > > > [...] > > > > Sorry, er, what? What distributions eagerly upgrade kernels in stable > > periods, were it not primarily motivated by security fixes? [...] > > Please check the popular distro called 'Fedora' for example I do believe I've heard of it. According to fedora bodhi, there have been 18 kernel updates issues for fedora 11 since its release, of which 12 were for purely security updates, and most of the other six also contain security fixes. None are described as 'enhancement' updates. Oh, what about fedora 12? 8 updates total, of which 5 are security only, one for drm showstoppers, others including security fixes, again 0 tagged as 'enhancement'. So where is that "eagerness" again?? My sense is that most users are happy to leave a stable kernel running as long as possible, and distributions know this. You surely must understand that the lkml demographics are different. > and its kernel upgrade policies. [citation needed] > > [...] What users eagerly replace their kernels? > > Those 99% who click on the 'install 193 updates' popup. That's not "eager". That's "I'm exasperated from guessing what's really important; let's not have so many updates; meh". - FChE -- To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe linux-kernel" in the body of a message to majordomo(a)vger.kernel.org More majordomo info at http://vger.kernel.org/majordomo-info.html Please read the FAQ at http://www.tux.org/lkml/
From: Daniel P. Berrange on 18 Mar 2010 09:50 On Thu, Mar 18, 2010 at 02:31:24PM +0100, Ingo Molnar wrote: > > * Avi Kivity <avi(a)redhat.com> wrote: > > > On 03/18/2010 03:02 PM, Ingo Molnar wrote: > > > > > >> [...] What users eagerly replace their kernels? > > > > > > Those 99% who click on the 'install 193 updates' popup. > > > > > > > Of which 1 is the kernel, and 192 are userspace updates (of which one may be > > qemu). > > I think you didnt understand my (tersely explained) point - which is probably > my fault. What i said is: > > - distros update the kernel first. Often in stable releases as well if > there's a new kernel released. (They must because it provides new hardware > enablement and other critical changes they generally cannot skip.) > > - Qemu on the other hand is not upgraded with (nearly) that level of urgency. > Completely new versions will generally have to wait for the next distro > release. This has nothing todo with them being in separate source repos. We could update QEMU to new major feature releaes with the same frequency in a Fedora release, but we delibrately choose not to rebase the QEMU userspace because experiance has shown the downside from new bugs / regressions outweighs the benefit of any new features. The QEMU updates in stable Fedora trees, now just follow the minor bugfix release stream provided by QEMU & those arrive in Fedora with little noticable delay. Daniel -- |: Red Hat, Engineering, London -o- http://people.redhat.com/berrange/ :| |: http://libvirt.org -o- http://virt-manager.org -o- http://deltacloud.org :| |: http://autobuild.org -o- http://search.cpan.org/~danberr/ :| |: GnuPG: 7D3B9505 -o- F3C9 553F A1DA 4AC2 5648 23C1 B3DF F742 7D3B 9505 :| -- To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe linux-kernel" in the body of a message to majordomo(a)vger.kernel.org More majordomo info at http://vger.kernel.org/majordomo-info.html Please read the FAQ at http://www.tux.org/lkml/
From: Frank Ch. Eigler on 18 Mar 2010 10:50
Hi - On Thu, Mar 18, 2010 at 03:25:04PM +0100, Ingo Molnar wrote: > [...] > > Us guys reading and participating on the list. ;) > > I'd like to second that - i'm actually quite happy to update the distro > kernel. Also, i have rarely any problems even with bleeding edge kernels in > rawhide - they are working pretty smoothly. > > A large xorg update showing up in yum update gives me the cringe though ;-) From a parochial point of view, that makes perfect sense: someone else's large software changes are a source of concern. The same thing applies to non-LKML people -- ordinary users -- when *your* large software changes are proposed. Perhaps this change in perspective would help you see the absurdity of proposing kernel-2.6.git as a hosting repository for all kinds of stuff, on the theory that kernel updates get pushed to "eager" users more frequently than other kinds of updates. (Never mind that data shows otherwise.) - FChE -- To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe linux-kernel" in the body of a message to majordomo(a)vger.kernel.org More majordomo info at http://vger.kernel.org/majordomo-info.html Please read the FAQ at http://www.tux.org/lkml/ |