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From: Questor on 20 Dec 2009 15:16
My very old XP Home laptop, which I hadn't turned on in a long time,
required 43 updates. One of them (I haven't a clue which one) required
that the computer be turned off to install. I allowed the laptop to be
turned off and then got the alternating "Do not turn off .... it will
turn off automatically" and "Installing update 1 of 1".

The message cycling has been going on now for over four hours with no
discernible disk activity for the last hour. Usually when this type of
update occurs, the whole computer shuts down except or the blue message
screen but this time the mouse pointer is still active. No response
from clicking or anything, but I am able to move it around the screen
using the touchpad. This would indicate that perhaps not all the
drivers have shut down and are causing the installation hang.

My question is: Could this just be an interminably long and complicated
update OR has my computer gone out to lunch?

Questor
From: Shenan Stanley on 20 Dec 2009 15:29
Questor wrote:
> My very old XP Home laptop, which I hadn't turned on in a long time,
> required 43 updates. One of them (I haven't a clue which one)
> required that the computer be turned off to install. I allowed the
> laptop to be turned off and then got the alternating "Do not turn
> off .... it will turn off automatically" and "Installing update 1
> of 1".
> The message cycling has been going on now for over four hours with
> no discernible disk activity for the last hour. Usually when this
> type of update occurs, the whole computer shuts down except or the
> blue message screen but this time the mouse pointer is still
> active. No response from clicking or anything, but I am able to
> move it around the screen using the touchpad. This would indicate
> that perhaps not all the drivers have shut down and are causing the
> installation hang.
> My question is: Could this just be an interminably long and
> complicated update OR has my computer gone out to lunch?

I doubt it required the computer to be 'turned off' to install. In fact -
that would very well inhibit installation. Reboot/Restart - I can see.

Sounds like you need to cleanup a bit - get things straightened out. If it
needed 43 updates, it could have had issues that got exploited before you
got them patched and your AntiVirus software up to date.

That in mind - here is what I suggest to get the machine running faster,
up-to-date and cleaner than it probably did before you turned it off.

Start button --> RUN
(no "RUN"? Press the "Windows Key" + R on your keyboard)
--> type in:
winver
--> Click OK.

The picture at the top of the window that opens will give you the general
(Operating System name and edition) while the line starting with the word
"version" will give you the rest of the story. Post _both_ in response
to this message verbatim. No paraphrasing - instead - ensure
character-for-character copying.

What version of Internet Explorer are you currently using? Easy to find
out. Open Internet Explorer and while that is in-focus, press and hold
the "ALT" key on your keyboard. With the "ALT" key still pressed, press
(just once, no holding) the "H" key. Now, with the "ALT" key still
pressed, press (just once, no holding) the "A" key. That will bring up
the "About Internet Explorer" window. It will give you the exact version
you are using - repeat what you see there in response to this message.

Reboot so you start with a fresh machine. For everything here you will
need to logon as an user with administrative (installation) priviledges.

Fix your file/registry permissions...

Ignore the title and follow the sub-section under
"Advanced Troubleshooting" titled,
"Method 1: Reset the registry and the file permissions"
http://support.microsoft.com/kb/949377
*will take time
** Ignore the last step (6) - you should have SP3 - but if you don't,
now is not the time.

You will likely see errors pass by if you watching, even count up. No
worries *at this time*.

*After* that is done, continue on to the next part where you clean off
some excess (unnecessary) files. It only removes those you definitely
do not need, if you follow the directions *as given* and do not deviate.
So reboot (for each of these steps, it is just best to reboot right
before - but I will continue to point that out) and logon as an user with
administrative priviledges.

Download/install the "Windows Installer CleanUp Utility":
http://support.microsoft.com/kb/290301

After installing, do the following:

Start button --> RUN
(no "RUN"? Press the "Windows Key" + R on your keyboard)
--> type in:
"%ProgramFiles%\Windows Installer Clean Up\msizap.exe" g!
--> Click OK.
(The quotation marks and percentage signs and spacing should be exact.)

It will flash by *quick*, don't expect much out of this step to get
excited about. But the cleaner your machine is to start with, the
better your luck will be later (not really luck - more like preparedness,
but that's not as fun to think about, eh?)

Reboot.

This time (and this is one of the more time-consuming steps) you will be
running (one at a time with reboots in-between each) three different
anti-spyware/anti-malware applications to ensure you come up clean.

Download, install, run, update and perform a full scan with the following
(freeware version):

SuperAntiSpyware
http://www.superantispyware.com/

Reboot and logon as administrative user.

Download, install, run, update and perform a full scan with the following
(freeware version):

MalwareBytes
http://www.malwarebytes.com/

Reboot and logon as administrative user.

Download and run the MSRT manually:
http://www.microsoft.com/security/malwareremove/default.mspx

You may find nothing, you may find only cookies, you may think it is a
waste of time - but if you do all this and report back here with what you
do/don't find as you are doing all of it - you are adding more pieces to
the puzzle and the entire picture just may become clearer and your
problem resolved.

Reboot and logon as administrative user.

Download/Install the latest Windows Installer (for your OS):
( Windows XP 32-bit : WindowsXP-KB942288-v3-x86.exe )
http://www.microsoft.com/downloadS/details.aspx?familyid=5A58B56F-60B6-4412-95B9-54D056D6F9F4

Reboot and logon as administrative user.

Download the latest version of the Windows Update agent from here (x86):
http://go.microsoft.com/fwlink/?LinkID=91237
.... and save it to the root of your C:\ drive. After saving it to the
root of the C:\ drive, do the following:

Close all Internet Explorer windows and other applications.

Start button --> RUN and type in:
%SystemDrive%\windowsupdateagent30-x86.exe /WUFORCE
--> Click OK.

(If asked, select "Run.) --> Click on NEXT --> Select "I agree" and click on
NEXT --> When it finishes installing, click on "Finish"...

Reboot and logon as administrative user.

Visit this web page:

How do I reset Windows Update components?
http://support.microsoft.com/kb/971058

.... and click on the "Microsoft Fix it" icon. When asked, select "RUN",
both times. Check the "I agree" box and click on "Next". Check the box
for "Run aggressive options (not recommended)" and click "Next". Let
it finish up and follow the prompts until it is done. Close/exit and
reboot when it is.

You should now perform a full CHKDSK on your system drive (C:)...

How to scan your disks for errors
http://support.microsoft.com/kb/315265
* will take time and a reboot

You should now perform a full Defragment on your system drive (C:)...

How to Defragment your hard drives
http://support.microsoft.com/kb/314848
* will take time

Uninstall any and all third-party firewall applications (ZoneAlarm, etc)
and utilize the built-in Windows Firewall only.

Reboot.

Log on as an user with administrative rights and open Internet Explorer
and visit http://windowsupdate.microsoft.com/ and select to do a
CUSTOM scan...

Every time you are about to click on something while at these web pages -
first press and hold down the CTRL key while you click on it. You can
release the CTRL key after clicking each time.

Once the scan is done, select just _ONE_ of the high priority updates
(deselect any others) and install it.

Reboot again.

If it did work - try the web page again - selecting no more than 3-5 at a
time. Rebooting as needed.

The Optional Software updates are generally safe - although I recommend
against the "Windows Search" one and any of the "Office Live" ones or
"Windows Live" ones for now. I would completely avoid the
Optional Hardware updates. Also - I do not see any urgent need to
install Internet Explorer 8 at this time.

Seriously - do all that. This is like antibiotics - don't skip a single
step, don't quit because you think things will be okay now - go through
until the end, until you have done everything given in the order given. If
you have a problem with a step come ask and let someone here get you
through that step. If you don't understand how to do a step, come back
and ask here about that step and let someone walk you through it.

Then - when done - let everyone here know if it worked for you - or if
you have more issues.

--
Shenan Stanley
MS-MVP
--
How To Ask Questions The Smart Way
http://www.catb.org/~esr/faqs/smart-questions.html


From: Questor on 20 Dec 2009 15:43
--->
> Questor wrote:
>> My very old XP Home laptop, which I hadn't turned on in a long time,
>> required 43 updates. One of them (I haven't a clue which one)
>> required that the computer be turned off to install. I allowed the
>> laptop to be turned off and then got the alternating "Do not turn
>> off .... it will turn off automatically" and "Installing update 1
>> of 1".
>> The message cycling has been going on now for over four hours with
>> no discernible disk activity for the last hour. Usually when this
>> type of update occurs, the whole computer shuts down except or the
>> blue message screen but this time the mouse pointer is still
>> active. No response from clicking or anything, but I am able to
>> move it around the screen using the touchpad. This would indicate
>> that perhaps not all the drivers have shut down and are causing the
>> installation hang.
>> My question is: Could this just be an interminably long and
>> complicated update OR has my computer gone out to lunch?
>
> I doubt it required the computer to be 'turned off' to install. In fact -
> that would very well inhibit installation. Reboot/Restart - I can see.
>
> Sounds like you need to cleanup a bit - get things straightened out. If it
> needed 43 updates, it could have had issues that got exploited before you
> got them patched and your AntiVirus software up to date.
>
> That in mind - here is what I suggest to get the machine running faster,
> up-to-date and cleaner than it probably did before you turned it off.
>
> Start button --> RUN
> (no "RUN"? Press the "Windows Key" + R on your keyboard)
> --> type in:
> winver
> --> Click OK.
>
> The picture at the top of the window that opens will give you the general
> (Operating System name and edition) while the line starting with the word
> "version" will give you the rest of the story. Post _both_ in response
> to this message verbatim. No paraphrasing - instead - ensure
> character-for-character copying.
>
> What version of Internet Explorer are you currently using? Easy to find
> out. Open Internet Explorer and while that is in-focus, press and hold
> the "ALT" key on your keyboard. With the "ALT" key still pressed, press
> (just once, no holding) the "H" key. Now, with the "ALT" key still
> pressed, press (just once, no holding) the "A" key. That will bring up
> the "About Internet Explorer" window. It will give you the exact version
> you are using - repeat what you see there in response to this message.
>
> Reboot so you start with a fresh machine. For everything here you will
> need to logon as an user with administrative (installation) priviledges.
>
> Fix your file/registry permissions...
>
> Ignore the title and follow the sub-section under
> "Advanced Troubleshooting" titled,
> "Method 1: Reset the registry and the file permissions"
> http://support.microsoft.com/kb/949377
> *will take time
> ** Ignore the last step (6) - you should have SP3 - but if you don't,
> now is not the time.
>
> You will likely see errors pass by if you watching, even count up. No
> worries *at this time*.
>
> *After* that is done, continue on to the next part where you clean off
> some excess (unnecessary) files. It only removes those you definitely
> do not need, if you follow the directions *as given* and do not deviate.
> So reboot (for each of these steps, it is just best to reboot right
> before - but I will continue to point that out) and logon as an user with
> administrative priviledges.
>
> Download/install the "Windows Installer CleanUp Utility":
> http://support.microsoft.com/kb/290301
>
> After installing, do the following:
>
> Start button --> RUN
> (no "RUN"? Press the "Windows Key" + R on your keyboard)
> --> type in:
> "%ProgramFiles%\Windows Installer Clean Up\msizap.exe" g!
> --> Click OK.
> (The quotation marks and percentage signs and spacing should be exact.)
>
> It will flash by *quick*, don't expect much out of this step to get
> excited about. But the cleaner your machine is to start with, the
> better your luck will be later (not really luck - more like preparedness,
> but that's not as fun to think about, eh?)
>
> Reboot.
>
> This time (and this is one of the more time-consuming steps) you will be
> running (one at a time with reboots in-between each) three different
> anti-spyware/anti-malware applications to ensure you come up clean.
>
> Download, install, run, update and perform a full scan with the following
> (freeware version):
>
> SuperAntiSpyware
> http://www.superantispyware.com/
>
> Reboot and logon as administrative user.
>
> Download, install, run, update and perform a full scan with the following
> (freeware version):
>
> MalwareBytes
> http://www.malwarebytes.com/
>
> Reboot and logon as administrative user.
>
> Download and run the MSRT manually:
> http://www.microsoft.com/security/malwareremove/default.mspx
>
> You may find nothing, you may find only cookies, you may think it is a
> waste of time - but if you do all this and report back here with what you
> do/don't find as you are doing all of it - you are adding more pieces to
> the puzzle and the entire picture just may become clearer and your
> problem resolved.
>
> Reboot and logon as administrative user.
>
> Download/Install the latest Windows Installer (for your OS):
> ( Windows XP 32-bit : WindowsXP-KB942288-v3-x86.exe )
> http://www.microsoft.com/downloadS/details.aspx?familyid=5A58B56F-60B6-4412-95B9-54D056D6F9F4
>
> Reboot and logon as administrative user.
>
> Download the latest version of the Windows Update agent from here (x86):
> http://go.microsoft.com/fwlink/?LinkID=91237
> ... and save it to the root of your C:\ drive. After saving it to the
> root of the C:\ drive, do the following:
>
> Close all Internet Explorer windows and other applications.
>
> Start button --> RUN and type in:
> %SystemDrive%\windowsupdateagent30-x86.exe /WUFORCE
> --> Click OK.
>
> (If asked, select "Run.) --> Click on NEXT --> Select "I agree" and click on
> NEXT --> When it finishes installing, click on "Finish"...
>
> Reboot and logon as administrative user.
>
> Visit this web page:
>
> How do I reset Windows Update components?
> http://support.microsoft.com/kb/971058
>
> ... and click on the "Microsoft Fix it" icon. When asked, select "RUN",
> both times. Check the "I agree" box and click on "Next". Check the box
> for "Run aggressive options (not recommended)" and click "Next". Let
> it finish up and follow the prompts until it is done. Close/exit and
> reboot when it is.
>
> You should now perform a full CHKDSK on your system drive (C:)...
>
> How to scan your disks for errors
> http://support.microsoft.com/kb/315265
> * will take time and a reboot
>
> You should now perform a full Defragment on your system drive (C:)...
>
> How to Defragment your hard drives
> http://support.microsoft.com/kb/314848
> * will take time
>
> Uninstall any and all third-party firewall applications (ZoneAlarm, etc)
> and utilize the built-in Windows Firewall only.
>
> Reboot.
>
> Log on as an user with administrative rights and open Internet Explorer
> and visit http://windowsupdate.microsoft.com/ and select to do a
> CUSTOM scan...
>
> Every time you are about to click on something while at these web pages -
> first press and hold down the CTRL key while you click on it. You can
> release the CTRL key after clicking each time.
>
> Once the scan is done, select just _ONE_ of the high priority updates
> (deselect any others) and install it.
>
> Reboot again.
>
> If it did work - try the web page again - selecting no more than 3-5 at a
> time. Rebooting as needed.
>
> The Optional Software updates are generally safe - although I recommend
> against the "Windows Search" one and any of the "Office Live" ones or
> "Windows Live" ones for now. I would completely avoid the
> Optional Hardware updates. Also - I do not see any urgent need to
> install Internet Explorer 8 at this time.
>
> Seriously - do all that. This is like antibiotics - don't skip a single
> step, don't quit because you think things will be okay now - go through
> until the end, until you have done everything given in the order given. If
> you have a problem with a step come ask and let someone here get you
> through that step. If you don't understand how to do a step, come back
> and ask here about that step and let someone walk you through it.
>
> Then - when done - let everyone here know if it worked for you - or if
> you have more issues.
>

Shenan:

Lots of updates require a shutdown/turn-on cycle. I get it several
times a month on by XP/Vista and W7 machines. This particular one seems
to be taking MUCH longer than normal.

I have done everything you outline as well as several more items. None
of them located any faults or unusual goings on. I've been working with
computers and software for over 45 years, but in this particular
instance I felt that perhaps someone else had run into this happening.

Fully prepared to re-install XP Home, I simply pulled the charger,
switched off, and pulled the battery. When I came back up (yes, it did
boot up perfectly) I found that everything had installed correctly. My
take on this is that some sort of glitch prevented the computer from
fully turning itself off and needed a 'noodge'.

Questor
From: Shenan Stanley on 20 Dec 2009 18:45
<snipped>

Questor wrote:
> Shenan:
>
> Lots of updates require a shutdown/turn-on cycle. I get it several
> times a month on by XP/Vista and W7 machines. This particular one
> seems to be taking MUCH longer than normal.
>
> I have done everything you outline as well as several more items. None of
> them located any faults or unusual goings on. I've been
> working with computers and software for over 45 years, but in this
> particular instance I felt that perhaps someone else had run into
> this happening.
> Fully prepared to re-install XP Home, I simply pulled the charger,
> switched off, and pulled the battery. When I came back up (yes, it
> did boot up perfectly) I found that everything had installed
> correctly. My take on this is that some sort of glitch prevented
> the computer from fully turning itself off and needed a 'noodge'.

No windows updates require what you originally said, "that the computer be
turned off to install". Semantics, really - but the requirement is for a
restart/reboot. Power never has to cease flowing to your machine - so you
do not have to "turn off" the machine and you did not mention a 'cycle',
after all. *grin*

You did everything I pointed out *in the order* I gave it?

Although many of the items you should (*and may) do in your normal
maintenance of the computer - that is not a random list of steps - but a 'do
this, in this order, until you reach the last step...' procedure and no
computer I know of could have done all that in that order in the 14 minutes
it took you to respond to me. ;-)

Why do people always assume quoting the number of years they have been doing
something changes the answers? If the number of years they were doing
whatever meant something to the particular issue at hand - they wouldn't
have likely asked the question. ;-)

I've been using and troubleshooting computers for a *long time* myself - but
I don't think that because I have been doing that, someone else whose only
been doing it for a week might not be able to tell me how to do something
better. The ways computing has changed over the past 20 years - even more
so over the last 30-50 years - boggles the mind and there is NO similarity
on what I would have done in DOS/Unix/Windows 3.11 for workgroups/OS2 to
what I would do in your given situation.

At least I put the the punch cards in order for you. ;-)

The .NET Framework updates can take a considerably long time, yes.

--
Shenan Stanley
MS-MVP
--
How To Ask Questions The Smart Way
http://www.catb.org/~esr/faqs/smart-questions.html


From: Questor on 20 Dec 2009 20:17
--->
> <snipped>
>
> Questor wrote:
>> Shenan:
>>
>> Lots of updates require a shutdown/turn-on cycle. I get it several
>> times a month on by XP/Vista and W7 machines. This particular one
>> seems to be taking MUCH longer than normal.
>>
>> I have done everything you outline as well as several more items. None of
>> them located any faults or unusual goings on. I've been
>> working with computers and software for over 45 years, but in this
>> particular instance I felt that perhaps someone else had run into
>> this happening.
>> Fully prepared to re-install XP Home, I simply pulled the charger,
>> switched off, and pulled the battery. When I came back up (yes, it
>> did boot up perfectly) I found that everything had installed
>> correctly. My take on this is that some sort of glitch prevented
>> the computer from fully turning itself off and needed a 'noodge'.
>
> No windows updates require what you originally said, "that the computer be
> turned off to install". Semantics, really - but the requirement is for a
> restart/reboot. Power never has to cease flowing to your machine - so you
> do not have to "turn off" the machine and you did not mention a 'cycle',
> after all. *grin*
>
> You did everything I pointed out *in the order* I gave it?
>
> Although many of the items you should (*and may) do in your normal
> maintenance of the computer - that is not a random list of steps - but a 'do
> this, in this order, until you reach the last step...' procedure and no
> computer I know of could have done all that in that order in the 14 minutes
> it took you to respond to me. ;-)
>
> Why do people always assume quoting the number of years they have been doing
> something changes the answers? If the number of years they were doing
> whatever meant something to the particular issue at hand - they wouldn't
> have likely asked the question. ;-)
>
> I've been using and troubleshooting computers for a *long time* myself - but
> I don't think that because I have been doing that, someone else whose only
> been doing it for a week might not be able to tell me how to do something
> better. The ways computing has changed over the past 20 years - even more
> so over the last 30-50 years - boggles the mind and there is NO similarity
> on what I would have done in DOS/Unix/Windows 3.11 for workgroups/OS2 to
> what I would do in your given situation.
>
> At least I put the the punch cards in order for you. ;-)
>
> The .NET Framework updates can take a considerably long time, yes.
>

To not flog a dead horse here, I disagree. When choosing Start -> Turn
off Computer after all updates have been applied, the dialog box that
appears in the center of the screen states quite clearly under the
middle button ("Turn Off") -- "Click here to install the updates and
TURN OFF (emphasis mine) your computer".

That, to me, means turn off, not cycle down to CMOS and restart. Under
those conditions there must be a complete power down cycle to effect the
changes is what I read from that screen.

If you simply choose Restart, not all of the updates will get installed.

And, yes, punch cards were my first input medium; along with
fingerboning in machine code using 15 switches and a Load/Store switch.

Questor
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